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nihlistic 04-25-07 04:59 PM

rogues too overpowered so lets buff em
i get hit stunned hit ..i blink. if i try to engage him, he blinds or stuns me before i get a meaninful shot off. and by throwing things at me he postpones my 2.5 second cast to about 3 to 4 sec cast. i gotta stand still for stupid long cast times. then its 15 seconds without a blink which equals certain death. if i frost nova him he gets out of it immediately. slowing effects are brushed off by him which makes the frost tree absolutely USELESS. if i manage to get him down in hitpoints he vanishes.
aoe only works if im close to him. i cant find him, i am not a warlock and have no stealth detection.
he can silence me (a caster) for 3 seconds and interupt my spell completely by throwing things at me in the mean time i might as well take my gloves off and bareknuckle fight him.

and in the 5 seconds that he is immune to everything he can kill me.....yes 5 seconds.

so bliz wants to extent his insignia of the horde as a tool to allow him a way out of sheep and slowing effects in the next patch. THATS RIGHT

frost mages hit with a frostbolt for 1200 points off a 2.5 second cast. every fourth or fifth cast is a generous crit for 2900.

if a mage hits enemy while the enemy is in ice a mages crit chance increases by up to 50 percent at which point the ice is broke by the damage 90 percent of the time (very unreliable CC tool).
but the trick is to get far enough away from the target, turn around, and cast a 2.5 sec cast while being interrupted ...90 percent of the time you WILL NOT get a cast off so kiss your would have been 50 percent crit increase goodbye.

A mage, if able to get away, may click on his invisible button. yes we must wait 5 seconds until we vanish. if we are hit by anything, even a dot or a bleed, we just wasted a 5 minute cooldown. and cant go invis

blink only works half the time, as intended? if a mage blinks in certain wide open places as a lifesaving means to get out of range; half the time the mage will go backward 2 feet.
so blink cant even be counted on.

address these issues,



Seerah 04-25-07 05:19 PM

Did you post this on the mage forum or something? Cause I'm not too sure how you'll get someone here to fix something about class balance. :)

I hate rogues. But I also don't pvp very often and consider myself a noob. :p The key to rogues though is staying on your toes, trying to always be one step ahead of him, and modifying your play style to accommodate what they bring to the table. Mana/Ice shields, instant cast spells ( <3 PoM), and rank 1 AE and Blizzard are your friends. Try to get a DOT up on the rogue (through fireball or something) to prevent them from going stealthed. When you frost nova, strafe to the left or right, that way you only have to do a quarter turn (if that) to face them to cast again. Using the mouse is faster to turn than the keyboard, as well. When using your instant cast spells, remember that the rogue will keep wanted to get behind you - so you have to dance like a rogue and keep trying to stay in front of them.

Good luck. :)

robthedude 04-25-07 05:34 PM

Yup, Rogues can walk all over every other class, but at least... erm... nope, dunno where I'm going with this...

Here's some advice - level a rogue! never get your arse whooped again!

Xanithon 04-26-07 08:31 AM

Just InstaCast your way away from the blighter.

Lvl 1 AE then sheep (maybe PoM if he's sprinting) so you have time to throw that Fireball or Pyroblast. Then InstaCast.

Meh, follow Seerah's adivce.

Corrodias 04-26-07 08:54 AM

As a feral druid, i have limited options myself for dealing with a rogue. The most effective strategy seems to be trying to keep his attention while i'm in bear form so he "wastes" his dps and anti-caster abilities or harass him in cat form if he's after someone else. And use bleed effects.

I can't even begin to imagine how a mage is supposed to do anything about them. As far as i'm aware, most people -- except perhaps a few rogues -- widely regard rogue as "the OP PvP class". Maybe Blizzard thinks all pvp mages are fire mages with PoM. That may be your only reasonable option if you're PvPing against rogues?

Wowgamer233 04-26-07 10:31 AM

As a priest...
...I learned the hard way having to deal with rogues by being ganked over and over and over in STV. Today I can say I have a fighting chance with taking on most rogues. I am currently leveling a (38atm) rogue to understand how to kick their asses as a priest but also to enjoy the character for it's own class. What I do NOT and will NOT ever do on my rogue is do random, ganky killing of squishies, i.e. priests and mages. Just my personal choice. Everyone else though... :D

In dealing with a rogue it's kinda obvious that they will hurt like hell when they ambush crit you. My first instinct is to fear as a priest (and blink as a mage). The VERY first thing you need to do with a rogue is dot their ass. Stop them stealthing as that is when they are most dangerous. Obviously fear (and blink) have a cooldown so you need to know your class to how to survive the daggers coming at you. Mages nova the rogue to the ground and just get out of there. You can get some distance with blink which should have cooled down as the nova holds them. Heck, just get out of there. Move on. As a shadow priest I can pretty easily dot and flay a rogue to death. Fear should be up pretty quick so dot and heal. A good shadow priest can own pretty much own rogues unless they really rock at pvp and are out to be squishy killers. A holy priest can keep himself/herself alive through the onslaught and dot and fear accordingly.

So, rogues can be handled by making sure they are dotted, frozen down, feared, flayed, etc. Yes these things have cool-downs but if you let a rogue start shredding you with his weapons or get behind you then it's not looking good for you.

I've had great satisfaction of taking down ?? rogues with a shammy friend just because we kept him dotted, feared and frost-shocked. Slow them, dot them, fear them and call for backup.... :eek: People like to know when a rogue is being naughty so you should usually get help if you are polite and informative in asking for help in local defense.

nihlistic 04-26-07 11:44 PM

i appreciate the comments and reaction guys
:o what has occured recently with the rogue is that they get (without spending points) automatically the cloak of shadows which wipes off all dots, slowing, stuns, etc. albeit with a 60 second cooldown. giving them not a slight edge, but a tremendous advantage. oh and by the way for 5 seconds they are immune to ALL just like palladins. then on top of that, they can use a talent selection to reset the cooldown on cloak of shadows, giving them a back to back cloak of shadows, if they dont want to wait a mere 60 seconds.

in addition, bliz will also change their insignia of the horde to work on sheep, slowing effects, and etc. this specifically counters the mages best crowd control spells and in effect can be used to further bridge the 60 sec gap between the omni-potent cloak of shadows. its truly, not an equalizer, but a rogue domination tool.

nih ;)

for all those months of getting waxed... its payback time, lol

Xanithon 04-29-07 07:56 PM

Death Coil, Fear, Immolate, DOTS, Fear, Shadow Bolt, Shadow Bolt.

gotta love locks... especially afflic. ones

zathriel 04-30-07 03:07 AM

my rogue is only 19 now and i have had only a few duels , all started by the other player and mostly they have been higher level players.
i've been beaten by three very high level mages , no surprise there and have beaten a warrior two levels higher with half my hp points intact but the three times i have fought paladins they have detected me and beaten me with ease :o
do paladins have some form of stealth detection too?

Debz 04-30-07 03:31 AM

humans do as a racial.

Probably used consecration though, any good pally around a stealthed druid/rogue will. Soon as you take dmg you unstealth.

Zyonin 04-30-07 05:31 AM

CoS works for most things except Bleed effects. So if you have bleed effects (Hemo, Rupture (Finsher) Garrote (Opener), Rend, Rake, Rip (Finsher), Pounce (Opener), Lacerate, then use em as it will knock the rogue out of Stealth makeing Vanish useless.

Mages should kite them, using instant casts, Frost Nova, Blink and if you have time Frost bolts.

Warlocks should Fear, DoT, DoT, Deathcoil, sic your Felpuppy on them.

Druids get the bleed effects and Farie Fire on them, Open with Prowl, finish with Maim if you are in kitty and you have the points to stun em or Rip for another Bleed effect, then shift to Bear to weather the storm, Bash to stun and Lacerate/Mangle.

Paladins use HoJ and Consecrate to control the fight, Bubble to heal and just wear them down.

Hunters use pets, traps and instant shots, then kite them.

Warriors need to Rend, Hamstring, and use Intimidating Shout (if the CD is up) and Demoralizing shout then kill them.

Priest, Shadow Pain, Psychic Scream and Mind Flay til the Rogue keels over

Always force Rogues to use their CDs (Sprint, CoS, Vanish, other CDs) at bad times for them, once the CDs are blown they are wide open for a kill. Have Racials and trinkets handy to try and break stuns if you get stunned. And if you hear the Stealth sound before you can launch an attack run somewhere very fast!!!! The trick is get the jump on the Rogue. A Rogue's strong point is when they attack you from Stealth. A good Rogue that is Stealthed will get that #@*$ing stunlock on you and thus the greeting from the Spirit Healer as you run again. However if you catch the Rogue before they have Stealthed then you can control the fight and the odds are in your favor.

This is coming from one who has played as a Rogue and vs Rogues. I have a level 70 Druid that eats Rogues, and as a Rogue I have been on the recieving of the attack I have mentioned.

Dissonance 05-26-07 01:56 PM

Well, I have a 67 Hunter and I destroy rogues.

I've played numerous other classes, and while they don't necessarily beat up on rogues, they don't get eaten alive either.

I suppose it's all in the skill of the player, and remember:

Just because you can kill mobs, doesn't mean you can kill players with the same effectiveness.

Isengarde 05-26-07 05:49 PM

Ya i don't see why people hate rogues so much they really suck in most situations other then a 1 v 1 where the othe rperson ha dno clue they were coming... so maybe 2% of the time in actual pvp scenarios will a rogue own "everyone" but for the most part its: kill one guy then by the time that guy is dead you owned by someone else cause you blew all your CDS tryin to kill the other person lol.

Dreadlorde 06-01-07 08:24 PM

I'm a lock, so I just pwn everything I right-click on. :D

(rogue's are still fun though.)

BadDaddio 07-29-07 12:40 PM

Wow! Is there just a bit of anti-rogue sentiment on this thread? Rogues seem to be hated for being grossly overpowered in one breath and in the next a variety of strategies is outlined to paste them. Although I would agree that most of the comments about abilities are correct, let me offer the perspective of a noob who's finally drug his Dwarf Rogue all the way to 70:

As some of the last posts stated, when our CD's are done, so are we. Fart while we're stealthed to break it. CoS with Premed gives me 2 escape hatches that may or may not work, then that deal's over with for 10 MINUTES.

Stealth and BS are the rogue's Plate Armor and 2-hand Bug Squasher or his Bubbles/Blessings and l-o-n-g range spells. Add to that the "Open Season on Rogues" mentality demonstrated on this thread, and we're just BG appetizers.

I'll hit anything, squishie to tank, picking my targets by which of my teammates is in the most trouble. Soon as I show myself, I get 3-4 enemies on me, and my team? They're gone - stupid rogue aggroing everything!!! Leave him to die.

Yeah, If I didn't like being the non-conformist, I'd ditch my dwarf rogue and go Lock or Mage and cookie-cutter him to 70 on my own diet of Rogue Biscuits. TY .02 added 8~D peace

Xanithon 07-30-07 01:22 AM

I don't right click...

I sometimes play on my friends 60 (aint got BC lol) UD Rogue when i'm ****ing annoyed at the SS Spammers. Anyone watch World of Roguecraft? 2 buttons.

Hellarion 07-30-07 03:46 AM

As a lock in pvp you should always have ur felhunter case senario..u see him/her before they see you...start pounding with fear (instant howl if u have it) get some distance between the 2 of you...throw up immolate to stop the stealth and what not....most rogues at this rate will trinket outa fear and CoS outa immo....dumb rogue..that leaves them wide open for sb,coil,...but keep slamming fire spells on them so when your shadow spells (being a lock ..shadow should be very good) kick in and CoS is on cd they got nothing left but gouge/cheapshot etc.... fear dot/sb till dead....

sounds like a lot but the whole fight might last 8 secs....if this doesn't work or you find something wrong just die and kill him when u rez and he aint lookin O.o irony?

Mages...elemental will help alot...rank 1 arcane explosion...remember to keep throwing differnt elements at him....acrane bolt first or fireblast..then something frost and repeat to keep them confused on what ur using (this goes for all classes...90% chance to resist is not 100 so dont' be so down) on my mage when i see the rogue pop CoS..i iceblock to even things..if i can't hurt him then he can't hurt me is the way i play it

basically just keep them busy and try to stay behind them or outa their hit box...i'll try and put up a vid of me pwning a rogue because i probly said a buncha stuff wrong or it sounds really confusing so i'll try to show you how i deal with them...happy hunting

ravagernl 07-30-07 04:48 AM

Personally, I hate Mutilators. I'm focusing on some warrior, Ambush, Mutilate, eviscerate, dead ( and that's when I have been hit by a warrior a few times ). In 5 seconds, they can deal 6k damage. Plus they are all instant.

Personally, I think that deadly throw and clos is really overpowered. Scatter Shot, trap him, he does CloS, and while I'm running I hear something flying in my back. Bah. No I won't use feign death now, I will die anyway.

Offcourse I'm marksman and not beastmaster, but why should a dps class relearn his talents to be effective in pvp?

Sythalin 07-30-07 08:38 AM


(this goes for all classes...90% chance to resist is not 100 so dont' be so down)
I have yet to hit a rogue with CoS up with ANYTHING with my mage since BC. This is the only skill that I think is OP.

"OMG, blizz made it so I can't "kite 'n' kill" rogues! I actually take damage cause the rogue can hit me now and I have to have some skill in PvP!!!! Nerf 'em, NURF EM!!!!"

L2PvP or switch to a carebear server. Plain and simple.

Hellarion 07-30-07 09:20 AM

honestly i have more problems with a rogue who shadow steps more than having one pop CoS while he's standing behind me..but thats just me

good point...i have characters on a pvp server and it got old having to fight while farming i went to a pve server and have no problems. If i do go to a bg i don't get mad cause i'm gonna rez in 30secs if i die and it'll be over in usually 15 mins or less. I don't wanna say nerf CoS cause i've seen it be very beneficial to my grp/raid

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