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-   -   Magelo for WoW Now in Beta!! (https://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16537)

Cairenn 06-03-08 12:14 PM

/sighs

I asked once already that people chill until I hear back from them (Blizz).

Jelan, nice to see you around. :)

Mazzlefizz 06-03-08 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelan (Post 92642)
I just wanted to answer latest Mazzlefizz post regarding auto-leveling or bot programs. The key thing about those programs regarding the EULA is that they alter your game play, "the gaming experience" since they automate stuff. Reading the memory is just fine, it's a common thing to do on a computer, your anti virus does it all the time. As i pointed out in my reply to Silenia, Magelo Sync does not modify or enhance your game play in anyway and we dont data mine.

While I agree that the spirit of Blizzard rules is to prevent things that change the "gaming experience" as you say, I don't think the rules set up any provision for people just to say our app has good intentions and is thus OK. They do the judicious thing and say every app that does anything remotely close to this is not OK unless we say otherwise. I really do hope they grant you such an exception -- everyone seems to rave about the quality of your site -- but I don't think you can just claim "reading memory is fine" like that.

But now that you're here, if you don't mind me asking, why don't you just get the information via an add-on or the armoury? I don't understand what additional benefit you're getting from scanning memory at run-time like you are. It seems like you're doing a lot of work and setting up lots of legal hoops to jump through for no additional benefit.

Oh, and thanks for replying in person!

Zyonin 06-03-08 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazzlefizz (Post 92666)
But now that you're here, if you don't mind me asking, why don't you just get the information via an add-on or the armoury? I don't understand what additional benefit you're getting from scanning memory at run-time like you are. It seems like you're doing a lot of work and setting up lots of legal hoops to jump through for no additional benefit.

Oh, and thanks for replying in person!

I was wondering the same thing myself. Using an AddOn to dump data to a SavedVariable (which is written at either log out or by reloading the UI), then have the updater/sync program grab that data is the legal way to do it. This is how WoWHead and others get their data.

I look foward to seeing how this plays out as the service looks very promising.

Kaomie 06-03-08 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xinh (Post 92669)
I was wondering the same thing myself. Using an AddOn to dump data to a SavedVariable (which is written at either log out or by reloading the UI), then have the updater/sync program grab that data is the legal way to do it. This is how WoWHead and others get their data.

I guess there is some added value: extreme simplicity for the users and live interactivity with the service.
Those would be the main differences compared to other sites offering slightly similar functionalities.
With also the "raving quality" of the website ;)

Cairenn 06-03-08 02:06 PM

Quote:

We’re currently researching this site to see if it’s breaking any terms of service or may cause a risk to players. I’ll let you know if I hear anything more on it.
Now you know what I know.

I told you guys I was checking into it and for everyone to just take a bloody chill pill until we got actual info from Blizz themselves. Conjecturing does nothing but cause arguments.

Petrah 06-03-08 02:47 PM

Thank you, Cairenn.

kosakara 06-03-08 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairenn (Post 92676)
Now you know what I know.

I told you guys I was checking into it and for everyone to just take a bloody chill pill until we got actual info from Blizz themselves. Conjecturing does nothing but cause arguments.

You are wonderful. <3

Normal 06-04-08 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairenn (Post 92676)
Now you know what I know.

I told you guys I was checking into it and for everyone to just take a bloody chill pill until we got actual info from Blizz themselves. Conjecturing does nothing but cause arguments.

Thanks for organising this, Cairenn. Personally, I think if it IS passed by Blizz as OK, the authors of the software owe you. I mean, you're organising clearance for them, yeah? Lawyers usually charge pretty hefty fees for getting that sorta stuff sorted ;)

Jelan 06-04-08 07:14 PM

Just like Normal said, I wanted to thank you Cairenn for trying to help us by contacting Blizzard. We already contacted them and we are waiting for their feedback, I keep you posted as soon as I have more news !

Broh 06-10-08 10:40 PM

It has been a while. Have we heard anything from Blizzard about this, or is this a dead subject that hasn't been answered and we will not get a reliable or solid answer about?

MidgetMage55 06-11-08 07:02 PM

Im sure there will be an answer. Keep in mind that involves blizzard reviewing the application in question and giving their approval.

I would imagine not a fast process. Take it in the grand scheme of a new expansion in the works plus managing the current issues and you get a better perspective on something like this.

Just be patient. It could take weeks before anything further is known. It is however far from dead.

saanlem 06-12-08 06:18 AM

I can cast some light on this Magelo thing. as I played EQ for 5 years.
Magelo can be said to be a "profile" site.
If you paid a subscription, Magelo would "pull" your characters stats from EQ. In my day, the raiding guilds required members to have a "Magelo" profile. This was the only way for others to see your stats and equipment.
The free profile did not "pull" your stats. You had to go into the "paperdoll" and manually add the armor slots you had.
EQ (Sony) later tried to do something similar, but did not work very well when I left a year ago. Besides, you had to PAY extra! Boggle!

Blizzards Armory is by far better than Magelo and EQ's attempt. Besides, it comes with the game!

Sepioth 06-12-08 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saanlem (Post 93465)
I can cast some light on this Magelo thing. as I played EQ for 5 years.
Magelo can be said to be a "profile" site.
If you paid a subscription, Magelo would "pull" your characters stats from EQ. In my day, the raiding guilds required members to have a "Magelo" profile. This was the only way for others to see your stats and equipment.
The free profile did not "pull" your stats. You had to go into the "paperdoll" and manually add the armor slots you had.
EQ (Sony) later tried to do something similar, but did not work very well when I left a year ago. Besides, you had to PAY extra! Boggle!

Blizzards Armory is by far better than Magelo and EQ's attempt. Besides, it comes with the game!

I guess you didn't read the post's by Cairenn. What you enlightened us with was absolutely nothing. Everyone seems to understand how it works and what it does. People's concern is not what Magelo can do but weather it is allowed by Blizzard because it as a program that runs with WoW (not an addon) and collects data. Thia can be seen by the WoW client (program) as a "Bot" or Unauthorized program and cause you to get banned. Until Blizzard says one way or a another it is suggested that you wait and don't use it.

--> Cairenn,
I saw on Magelo's website that Blizzard Europe gave it a small mention on it's Community News section ... could this be a good sign?

Blizzard Europe

Cralor 06-12-08 02:50 PM

I saw that too Sepioth. (But I forgot to mention it.)

It says this:

Quote:

Lastly, Magelo profiles are still around... and now serving World of Warcraft players!
(If you want to see more of the context, just go to the link above on Sepioth's post.)

Kaomie 06-12-08 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sepioth (Post 93487)
--> Cairenn,
I saw on Magelo's website that Blizzard Europe gave it a small mention on it's Community News section ... could this be a good sign?

Blizzard Europe

It would be, except the Europe Region EULA is different from the North America Region EULA, and seems among other things to be missing the part regarding the "Consent to Monitor" which is precisely the one of interest here. This would be because many European Countries have stronger laws concerning the protection of users privacy (CNIL law nš78-17 in France for example) which would conflict with a stronger monitoring.

So still waiting an answer for the US Region I guess :p

Cralor 06-12-08 04:28 PM

Nice catch Kaomie. Never thought to delve into that! (Or even think of it!)

I guess we wait. Does anyone like waiting? :p

Petrah 06-12-08 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cralor (Post 93496)
Does anyone like waiting? :p

Hell no... the wait is/was torture lol. It's not so bad at the moment though, as I'm taking full advantage of Sony's free month to get me back into to the game... been playing EQ and kinda just piddling in WoW. Thoughts of quitting WoW are running rampant in my head lately.

Bomyne 06-15-08 01:52 AM

I just spoke to a GM over this...

<GM> Cleaphesta: Greetings Bemily! This is Game Master Cleaphesta and I've just received your petition. Do you have a moment to speak with me regarding this issue
Bemily: Sure
Cleaphesta: Fantastic! I understand that you had a question about a program?
Bemily: Yes
Cleaphesta: Can you tell me a little more about the situation, please
Bemily: I found the program \"Magelo\" and I was intrigued by it. What it does is it creates a character profile page with extreme detail (including 3d model), all the items in your inventory, etc. But what raises the red flag for me is the fact that it
Bemily: runs concurrently with wow and detects what char is logged in
Cleaphesta: And this is an add-on, then?",
Bemily: No
Cleaphesta: Sorry about that delay, just trying to look it up here
Cleaphesta: Taking a look here, it does indeed appear to be legitmate. I would recommend checking the forums though to see what types of experiences other players have had with it
Bemily: I have checked the forums. I posted a thread myself and there is one other thread, but no one can give a clear answer
Cleaphesta: I do apologize, Bemily. But as In-Game Support, Game Masters really aren't able to provide any more information on it than what's already on the site.
Cleaphesta: As far as how it works, I would recommend contacting the company that produces it directly. As far as use, it is within policy.

They said it appears to be within policy.

Kaomie 06-15-08 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomyne (Post 93692)
They said it appears to be within policy.

That is not exactly what he said. He said it was legitimate and probably within the ToS ("As far as use"), but he does not know about the mechanics and whether they are okay or not ("As far as how it works"). More importantly he mentioned he has no authority on the matter which is true as Blizzard does not support any third party addon or program (but of course some may be tolerated). This is why more often than not for any problem or question regarding the UI the GMs answer is to uninstall everything and run the bare client ;)

I am quite surprised actually by this discussion and the extra time the GM took to look closer into the question while he probably should not have. I am not 100% sure this is not somewhat a personal opinion rather than anything he would have solid information on, but who knows. Anyway GMs are not the way to go, really the only acceptable answer will be a blue post on the Official Forums, because then if anything happens with Warden you can always refer to the post and have your account unbanned, while I am not convinced quoting a GM would really help :confused:

Evolution85 06-15-08 08:00 AM

GM's do not set policy. They ONLY assist with in game issues..

Sorry, dont buy it for a minute....

saanlem 06-16-08 10:26 PM

Sepioth, I doubt everyone is aware that for Magelo to give what the Blizzard Armory produces, one has to be a Premium member of Magelo, ie., pay a monthly subscription to Magelo.
The "bot" would be similar to those that Curse Gaming and others have.

gromlv 06-17-08 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saanlem (Post 93814)
Sepioth, I doubt everyone is aware that for Magelo to give what the Blizzard Armory produces, one has to be a Premium member of Magelo, ie., pay a monthly subscription to Magelo.
The "bot" would be similar to those that Curse Gaming and others have.

You mister,just killed my joy :(
I was rly looking forward to check this thing out,hell,i even got it instaled alrdy,all what iam waiting for,is a word from blizzard about this soft.
Naw that u said,that iam forced to PAY for a PROFILER,in order to get all my details of my char on that thing,my hands goes down.

sad tbh,realy wold of loved to use a 3D profiler.
As long as the thing iam paying for,does not offer me something unique that wold worth paying for,iam staying awai.

Petrah 06-17-08 02:20 AM

There's nothing preventing you from using the free version when it comes out of beta testing.

Petrah 06-17-08 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saanlem (Post 93814)
Sepioth, I doubt everyone is aware that for Magelo to give what the Blizzard Armory produces, one has to be a Premium member of Magelo, ie., pay a monthly subscription to Magelo.

I doubt everyone is aware that Magelo, once out of beta testing, will produce much much much much much more than the Armory ever will. ;)

In fact, I think Bliz should hire Jelan to fix their armory.

Goatus 06-18-08 07:50 PM

This question may sound silly, but wouldn't Blizzard aproval to this program create dangerous precedence for bot/cheat developers to use?

If you let one program to read WoW memory legaly, then you practicaly say it's FFA and anyone can do it. And how much more you need to create bot? Just read client memory send few keystrokes and thats all.

Petrah 06-18-08 08:54 PM

Magelo has been around, serving the EQ gaming community, for 7 years now. Whatever bot thingies are gonna be made more than likely already have been made.

dafire 06-19-08 09:42 AM

Blizzard will never allow Magelo or any Software that get's information directly from RAM while wow is running.

Probably they don't mind when you upload database files or write stuff into saved variables, because it's not realtime.

They are very eager on what they let out of the client in realtime. That's why you can't change the information on the G15 display. That's why combat log/chat log is bufferd and wrote to disk delayed. And Magelo breaks that rule.

Petrah 06-19-08 12:51 PM

I don't get this whole getting information from RAM thing. Is this my RAM we're talking about, or some other RAM belonging specifically to Blizzard? I don't need for the game to remain open in order to Sync my toons using Magelo.

I will not debate weather or not the software is illegal to use with WoW. That and what the terms state is no longer an issue. I already know that I shouldn't use it right now, and I do not use it. I do use it with another game though.

My only interest is weather or not they are going to tell us if we can use it (anyone other than an official Bliz employee stating otherwise is is doing so based on pure speculation only).... since they are indeed investigating it, have not locked Jelan's thread advertising it on the official WoW forums, have not banned anyone over it, and have not forced WoWWiki (an official fan site supported by Blizzard) to stop advertising it in their ad banner on the top of their site.

Evolution85 06-19-08 02:04 PM

What does this program do that the Armory, Warcrafter, Be Imba, or RPG Profiler cant????

With all the add ons, spreadsheets, WWS, and everything else available why in the world do we need another?

Arabeth 06-19-08 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silenia (Post 93974)
I don't get this whole getting information from RAM thing. Is this my RAM we're talking about, or some other RAM belonging specifically to Blizzard?

Yes it's your RAM; it's just that the data within it is not. It's copyright Blizzard. Which you know already, of course. But there will be a lot more data in there about the game that isn't just your combat stats or what a you happen to be wearing today.

It's reasonable to have data written to disk because it can be tightly controlled by the code that produces it but having software capable of accessing in realtime, directly from main memory and Blizzard start to lose control and potentially get ripped off. Or you do!! So they don't like it!

Petrah 06-19-08 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arabeth (Post 93982)
Yes it's your RAM; it's just that the data within it is not. It's copyright Blizzard. Which you know already, of course. But there will be a lot more data in there about the game that isn't just your combat stats or what a you happen to be wearing today.

It's reasonable to have data written to disk because it can be tightly controlled by the code that produces it but having software capable of accessing in realtime, directly from main memory and Blizzard start to lose control and potentially get ripped off. Or you do!! So they don't like it!

Thank you, Arabeth! I have a better understanding about this now and how it works.

Petrah 06-19-08 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evolution85 (Post 93981)
What does this program do that the Armory, Warcrafter, Be Imba, or RPG Profiler cant????

With all the add ons, spreadsheets, WWS, and everything else available why in the world do we need another?

You cannot really see everything that Magelo Sync can do just yet because it's still in Beta for WoW. However, if you pop over to the EverQuest side of the site, you'll see. Everything there will also be available for the WoW side.

There's so much that Magelo offeres, and I do not think I could possibly cover it all in a post. The only thing I can say is it puts all the others to shame. I remember the first time I used it for EverQuest.. I just sat there going :eek: (omg, wow!).

I'll let you see two of my EQ Magelo profiles so you can click on all the gear, buttons and doodads you see:

http://eq.magelo.com/profile/1304692
Notice the clickable icons on the right edge, and the tabs on the bottom. Lets say that I wanted to apply to a high end raiding guild. I add my profile link to my application and they can view it. They'll see what gear I have, my current stats (which are broken down in SOOO many ways for you to see) and if I need to work on anything. They'll see exactly where I am in my progression (keys I have already, what zones I am flagged for and quests I have completed to get there). They'll see everything there is to see, or what I choose to show or hide via my options panel. They also see how many AA (Alternate Advancements, same as Talent points) I have and what ones I am missing. I also have access, in my options, to check all my spells and see what ones, if any, I am missing.

http://eq.magelo.com/profile/1364844
This is one of my little alts. If you look up on the top right of the display box you'll see a tiny icon. Click that and you'll see two links called test and test2. These are what is called alternate profiles. I can edit those and add gear, augments on the gear, or weapons. This gives me the ability to know what gear will benefit me the most so I will know what to set my goals for. (You can see which ones I've changed as they have a yellowish tinted background on them). For each alternate profile, if you look up top where my name and guild name is at, under it, it states that it's an alternate profile so that I can't deceive people by stating I have that gear already.

There is also a ranking system for those who wish to allow their profiles to be ranked. (Gawd, that one guy has 24k hit points unbuffed... damn lol).

There is also a guild tool, but I haven't played with it that much. There's an items database, spells database, zone database, and NPC database. Probably more stuff and I just can't remember what it is at the moment.

Shiny <3 06-27-08 01:08 PM

basically its just prettier and shows your inventory, along with custom backgrounds and adding music thats about it i think.

saanlem 06-28-08 11:42 AM

and you have to pay Magelo for it.
Enough said.

Petrah 06-29-08 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saanlem (Post 94586)
and you have to pay Magelo for it.
Enough said.

Oh yes, everything that others work their butts off for should be 100% free of charge. Pfft... who ever heard of actually paying someone for exceptional service and an outstanding piece of software!!

Cairenn 06-29-08 12:27 AM

Okay, I think this thread has pretty well run its course. If/when I hear back from Blizz, I'll post.


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