rogues too overpowered so lets buff em
 

i get hit stunned hit ..i blink. if i try to engage him, he blinds or stuns me before i get a meaninful shot off. and by throwing things at me he postpones my 2.5 second cast to about 3 to 4 sec cast. i gotta stand still for stupid long cast times. then its 15 seconds without a blink which equals certain death. if i frost nova him he gets out of it immediately. slowing effects are brushed off by him which makes the frost tree absolutely USELESS. if i manage to get him down in hitpoints he vanishes.
aoe only works if im close to him. i cant find him, i am not a warlock and have no stealth detection.
he can silence me (a caster) for 3 seconds and interupt my spell completely by throwing things at me in the mean time i might as well take my gloves off and bareknuckle fight him.

and in the 5 seconds that he is immune to everything he can kill me.....yes 5 seconds.

so bliz wants to extent his insignia of the horde as a tool to allow him a way out of sheep and slowing effects in the next patch. THATS RIGHT

frost mages hit with a frostbolt for 1200 points off a 2.5 second cast. every fourth or fifth cast is a generous crit for 2900.

if a mage hits enemy while the enemy is in ice a mages crit chance increases by up to 50 percent at which point the ice is broke by the damage 90 percent of the time (very unreliable CC tool).
but the trick is to get far enough away from the target, turn around, and cast a 2.5 sec cast while being interrupted ...lol ...90 percent of the time you WILL NOT get a cast off so kiss your would have been 50 percent crit increase goodbye.

A mage, if able to get away, may click on his invisible button. yes we must wait 5 seconds until we vanish. if we are hit by anything, even a dot or a bleed, we just wasted a 5 minute cooldown. and cant go invis

blink only works half the time, as intended? if a mage blinks in certain wide open places as a lifesaving means to get out of range; half the time the mage will go backward 2 feet.
so blink cant even be counted on.

address these issues,

V/R,

Nih

Did you post this on the mage forum or something? Cause I'm not too sure how you'll get someone here to fix something about class balance. :)

I hate rogues. But I also don't pvp very often and consider myself a noob. :p The key to rogues though is staying on your toes, trying to always be one step ahead of him, and modifying your play style to accommodate what they bring to the table. Mana/Ice shields, instant cast spells ( <3 PoM), and rank 1 AE and Blizzard are your friends. Try to get a DOT up on the rogue (through fireball or something) to prevent them from going stealthed. When you frost nova, strafe to the left or right, that way you only have to do a quarter turn (if that) to face them to cast again. Using the mouse is faster to turn than the keyboard, as well. When using your instant cast spells, remember that the rogue will keep wanted to get behind you - so you have to dance like a rogue and keep trying to stay in front of them.

Good luck. :)

Yup, Rogues can walk all over every other class, but at least... erm... nope, dunno where I'm going with this...

Here's some advice - level a rogue! never get your arse whooped again!

Just InstaCast your way away from the blighter.

Lvl 1 AE then sheep (maybe PoM if he's sprinting) so you have time to throw that Fireball or Pyroblast. Then InstaCast.

Meh, follow Seerah's adivce.

As a feral druid, i have limited options myself for dealing with a rogue. The most effective strategy seems to be trying to keep his attention while i'm in bear form so he "wastes" his dps and anti-caster abilities or harass him in cat form if he's after someone else. And use bleed effects.

I can't even begin to imagine how a mage is supposed to do anything about them. As far as i'm aware, most people -- except perhaps a few rogues -- widely regard rogue as "the OP PvP class". Maybe Blizzard thinks all pvp mages are fire mages with PoM. That may be your only reasonable option if you're PvPing against rogues?

As a priest...
 

...I learned the hard way having to deal with rogues by being ganked over and over and over in STV. Today I can say I have a fighting chance with taking on most rogues. I am currently leveling a (38atm) rogue to understand how to kick their asses as a priest but also to enjoy the character for it's own class. What I do NOT and will NOT ever do on my rogue is do random, ganky killing of squishies, i.e. priests and mages. Just my personal choice. Everyone else though... :D

In dealing with a rogue it's kinda obvious that they will hurt like hell when they ambush crit you. My first instinct is to fear as a priest (and blink as a mage). The VERY first thing you need to do with a rogue is dot their ass. Stop them stealthing as that is when they are most dangerous. Obviously fear (and blink) have a cooldown so you need to know your class to how to survive the daggers coming at you. Mages nova the rogue to the ground and just get out of there. You can get some distance with blink which should have cooled down as the nova holds them. Heck, just get out of there. Move on. As a shadow priest I can pretty easily dot and flay a rogue to death. Fear should be up pretty quick so dot and heal. A good shadow priest can own pretty much own rogues unless they really rock at pvp and are out to be squishy killers. A holy priest can keep himself/herself alive through the onslaught and dot and fear accordingly.

So, rogues can be handled by making sure they are dotted, frozen down, feared, flayed, etc. Yes these things have cool-downs but if you let a rogue start shredding you with his weapons or get behind you then it's not looking good for you.

I've had great satisfaction of taking down ?? rogues with a shammy friend just because we kept him dotted, feared and frost-shocked. Slow them, dot them, fear them and call for backup.... :eek: People like to know when a rogue is being naughty so you should usually get help if you are polite and informative in asking for help in local defense.

i appreciate the comments and reaction guys
 

:o what has occured recently with the rogue is that they get (without spending points) automatically the cloak of shadows which wipes off all dots, slowing, stuns, etc. albeit with a 60 second cooldown. giving them not a slight edge, but a tremendous advantage. oh and by the way for 5 seconds they are immune to ALL just like palladins. then on top of that, they can use a talent selection to reset the cooldown on cloak of shadows, giving them a back to back cloak of shadows, if they dont want to wait a mere 60 seconds.

in addition, bliz will also change their insignia of the horde to work on sheep, slowing effects, and etc. this specifically counters the mages best crowd control spells and in effect can be used to further bridge the 60 sec gap between the omni-potent cloak of shadows. its truly, not an equalizer, but a rogue domination tool.

nih ;)

for all those months of getting waxed... its payback time, lol

Death Coil, Fear, Immolate, DOTS, Fear, Shadow Bolt, Shadow Bolt.

gotta love locks... especially afflic. ones

my rogue is only 19 now and i have had only a few duels , all started by the other player and mostly they have been higher level players.
i've been beaten by three very high level mages , no surprise there and have beaten a warrior two levels higher with half my hp points intact but the three times i have fought paladins they have detected me and beaten me with ease :o
do paladins have some form of stealth detection too?

humans do as a racial.

Probably used consecration though, any good pally around a stealthed druid/rogue will. Soon as you take dmg you unstealth.

CoS works for most things except Bleed effects. So if you have bleed effects (Hemo, Rupture (Finsher) Garrote (Opener), Rend, Rake, Rip (Finsher), Pounce (Opener), Lacerate, then use em as it will knock the rogue out of Stealth makeing Vanish useless.

Mages should kite them, using instant casts, Frost Nova, Blink and if you have time Frost bolts.

Warlocks should Fear, DoT, DoT, Deathcoil, sic your Felpuppy on them.

Druids get the bleed effects and Farie Fire on them, Open with Prowl, finish with Maim if you are in kitty and you have the points to stun em or Rip for another Bleed effect, then shift to Bear to weather the storm, Bash to stun and Lacerate/Mangle.

Paladins use HoJ and Consecrate to control the fight, Bubble to heal and just wear them down.

Hunters use pets, traps and instant shots, then kite them.

Warriors need to Rend, Hamstring, and use Intimidating Shout (if the CD is up) and Demoralizing shout then kill them.

Priest, Shadow Pain, Psychic Scream and Mind Flay til the Rogue keels over

Always force Rogues to use their CDs (Sprint, CoS, Vanish, other CDs) at bad times for them, once the CDs are blown they are wide open for a kill. Have Racials and trinkets handy to try and break stuns if you get stunned. And if you hear the Stealth sound before you can launch an attack run somewhere very fast!!!! The trick is get the jump on the Rogue. A Rogue's strong point is when they attack you from Stealth. A good Rogue that is Stealthed will get that #@*$ing stunlock on you and thus the greeting from the Spirit Healer as you run again. However if you catch the Rogue before they have Stealthed then you can control the fight and the odds are in your favor.

This is coming from one who has played as a Rogue and vs Rogues. I have a level 70 Druid that eats Rogues, and as a Rogue I have been on the recieving of the attack I have mentioned.

Well, I have a 67 Hunter and I destroy rogues.

I've played numerous other classes, and while they don't necessarily beat up on rogues, they don't get eaten alive either.

I suppose it's all in the skill of the player, and remember:

Just because you can kill mobs, doesn't mean you can kill players with the same effectiveness.

Ya i don't see why people hate rogues so much they really suck in most situations other then a 1 v 1 where the othe rperson ha dno clue they were coming... so maybe 2% of the time in actual pvp scenarios will a rogue own "everyone" but for the most part its: kill one guy then by the time that guy is dead you owned by someone else cause you blew all your CDS tryin to kill the other person lol.

Wow! Is there just a bit of anti-rogue sentiment on this thread? Rogues seem to be hated for being grossly overpowered in one breath and in the next a variety of strategies is outlined to paste them. Although I would agree that most of the comments about abilities are correct, let me offer the perspective of a noob who's finally drug his Dwarf Rogue all the way to 70:

As some of the last posts stated, when our CD's are done, so are we. Fart while we're stealthed to break it. CoS with Premed gives me 2 escape hatches that may or may not work, then that deal's over with for 10 MINUTES.

Stealth and BS are the rogue's Plate Armor and 2-hand Bug Squasher or his Bubbles/Blessings and l-o-n-g range spells. Add to that the "Open Season on Rogues" mentality demonstrated on this thread, and we're just BG appetizers.

I'll hit anything, squishie to tank, picking my targets by which of my teammates is in the most trouble. Soon as I show myself, I get 3-4 enemies on me, and my team? They're gone - stupid rogue aggroing everything!!! Leave him to die.

Yeah, If I didn't like being the non-conformist, I'd ditch my dwarf rogue and go Lock or Mage and cookie-cutter him to 70 on my own diet of Rogue Biscuits. TY .02 added 8~D peace

I don't right click...

I sometimes play on my friends 60 (aint got BC lol) UD Rogue when i'm ****ing annoyed at the SS Spammers. Anyone watch World of Roguecraft? 2 buttons.

As a lock in pvp you should always have ur felhunter out....best case senario..u see him/her before they see you...start pounding with fear (instant howl if u have it) get some distance between the 2 of you...throw up immolate to stop the stealth and what not....most rogues at this rate will trinket outa fear and CoS outa immo....dumb rogue..that leaves them wide open for sb,coil,...but keep slamming fire spells on them so when your shadow spells (being a lock ..shadow should be very good) kick in and CoS is on cd they got nothing left but gouge/cheapshot etc.... fear dot/sb till dead....

sounds like a lot but the whole fight might last 8 secs....if this doesn't work or you find something wrong just die and kill him when u rez and he aint lookin O.o irony?


Mages...elemental will help alot...rank 1 arcane explosion...remember to keep throwing differnt elements at him....acrane bolt first or fireblast..then something frost and repeat to keep them confused on what ur using (this goes for all classes...90% chance to resist is not 100 so dont' be so down) on my mage when i see the rogue pop CoS..i iceblock to even things..if i can't hurt him then he can't hurt me is the way i play it


basically just keep them busy and try to stay behind them or outa their hit box...i'll try and put up a vid of me pwning a rogue because i probly said a buncha stuff wrong or it sounds really confusing so i'll try to show you how i deal with them...happy hunting

Personally, I hate Mutilators. I'm focusing on some warrior, Ambush, Mutilate, eviscerate, dead ( and that's when I have been hit by a warrior a few times ). In 5 seconds, they can deal 6k damage. Plus they are all instant.

Personally, I think that deadly throw and clos is really overpowered. Scatter Shot, trap him, he does CloS, and while I'm running I hear something flying in my back. Bah. No I won't use feign death now, I will die anyway.

Offcourse I'm marksman and not beastmaster, but why should a dps class relearn his talents to be effective in pvp?

I have yet to hit a rogue with CoS up with ANYTHING with my mage since BC. This is the only skill that I think is OP.

"OMG, blizz made it so I can't "kite 'n' kill" rogues! I actually take damage cause the rogue can hit me now and I have to have some skill in PvP!!!! Nerf 'em, NURF EM!!!!"

L2PvP or switch to a carebear server. Plain and simple.

honestly i have more problems with a rogue who shadow steps more than having one pop CoS while he's standing behind me..but thats just me

good point...i have characters on a pvp server and it got old having to fight while farming etc..so i went to a pve server and have no problems. If i do go to a bg i don't get mad cause i'm gonna rez in 30secs if i die and it'll be over in usually 15 mins or less. I don't wanna say nerf CoS cause i've seen it be very beneficial to my grp/raid

As a mage I've had my fair share of rogue problems. I've tried alot of builds, but the one I'm now (deep fire) handles rogues better than the rest, if you consider the cloak of shadows. My earlier PoM spec (hadn't got AP because IMO it sucks, just wastes your mana) was mostly about luck, but the arcane missiles worked pretty well, and a instapyro (for the dot) held them out of stealth.

Later on (60-67) I went frost and with this build rogues who hadn't got Imp. Sprint was pretty easy, but those with it was hard to beat. Frost nova and frostbolts, ice lance when I got it, and some use of the elemental's freeze (really a good thing to have) could usually bring em down to 20% when they most of the time vanished. If my nova was on CD then I couldn't do ****.

Now I'm deep fire and my instants can take care of them pretty good - but now they have the damn cloak. Now it's more of a dice throw, if I get to blast them away they haven't got a chance, but usually they open with garotte silence. Nova-lance, fireblast, breath, blast wave, just get the damn instants off. Try to keep them controlled, pray that you get an impact or even two. Should get them down, if they cloak it's just good for me. I hold a little, kite and wait for my CDs to shorten. Only problem is I haven't got any survivability-improvers like ice block or pom-sheep.

I am not very good at PvP but this is what I try to do atleast^^

ive got a lock going now , upto 30 almost and im amazed how overpowered it is compared to a mage. it may not have poly or blink or survivability like a frost mage but it does tremendous damage in a short time. i ran into a bloodelf mage three levels higher than me n wiped the floor with him :D
thus i have decided to put my rogue on ice n concentrate on getting my lock upto 70 :)

@ nihlistic

Frost mages can kill rogues with ease. The key is patience. Sure, they can get out of all your freezes and such, but realize that it's all cooldown abilities. The key is to get them to blow them all in order to fight you. After that, they're a sitting duck.

Even as frost, if you're concerned about them vanishing, toss a 1st level Fireball to give em a DoT. Problem solved.

As I posted before, stop whining that you have to use some skill to kill rogues now. You're just pissed off cause they aren't "free honor" anymore. I repeat, L2PvP.

Note: I have both a mage and a rogue, so it's not like I'm one sided here.

I only leveled my rogue to 48...but I enjoyed her a great deal. The only two classes that even had a chance against her were frost mage and a lock with the succubus. Everything else went down before they even knew I was there.

But yea, a frost mage can kick some serious rogue butt if you play it correctly. I once watched a lvl 40 frost mage school a lvl 60 rogue with little more than nova, frostbolt, sheep and blink. It took him forever to do it, but he outlasted her.

I have a 68 rogue and can tell you that it's not as easy as it seems. Sure one on one rogues have their advantages, but against certain classes, as certain specs, there's no way one can beat a competent player. As a mage if you're having problems, I'd question what spec you are, if you're not frost there's no reason to complain about rogues. If you're frost then look at some of the strategies other people use. In fact, there's great how-to videos by a mage called "I suck at Dueling" and "I suck at PvP".

The real reason rogues are getting buffed is because of their arena play. In 5v5 they're practically worthless, as a warrior can do the same things and after 30 seconds into a match has more mobility than a rogue, having intercept. This is why rogues are getting a buff to their mobility.

Since the more recent patch that made all PvP trinkets remove any effect that disables control of your character rogues have had a difficult time, as now anyone can use it to break the notorious Blind + Bandage routine that rogues usually have to use against most classes. So instead of being so close minded try looking at it from another perspective.

Edit:
Also, if you're going to complain about a class you should read up more on them. That's actually how most people learn how to play against them. Cloak of shadows is not effected by Preperation, and is a 90% resist chance against all spells and does not remove all DoTs, but simply all magic effects. Warrior DoTs are not effected by it. Deadly throw, their ranged interrrupt is only usable if the rogue has combo points on you and only causes and interrupt if the rogue has the arena gloves. If you really want to see an unfair matchup watch a rogue against a decent warrior, the warrior simply has to auto attack and hamstring to win.

damn, just cant leave my rogue alone :)
halfway to 34 now , mostly subtlety at present but wondering what most think is the best levelling tree?

Read this http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dt4f32p_4dcj7jt, for some good leveling advice.

I have been playing my rogue since early alpha and haven't found another class I enjoy as much.

Spec Frost then blow CDs.

P.S sheep + Bandages are your friends.

sheep heals your target

Sheep as an opener if you have low health to start with, + bandage, It is a friend :)

Sounds to me like you dont have alot of resilience gear and stamina gear. If you work on the epic arena set and the non set items from regular pvp battle then you will increase the chance of a good shot in a rogue encounter.

Also the thing to remember when dealing with a rogue is that all rogues keeps on the move while engaging someone. This counts for most classes in fact except mages because they don't have alot of casts that enables you to stand still.
Now frost spec isnt that good in pvp as it used to be. As a former frost mage myself turned nuke arcane/fire spec i still struggle with rogues seeing as i don't have alot of resilience myself yet, but i do get in alot more damage than what i would do as frost spec. Now im not suggesting you change your talents, cause in the end if everyone has the same talents where is the fun in that. But if you have a pure frost tree i would suggest working on an alteration that enables you to get an additional cast of. Arcane mages have an instant cast spell that really is helpful in pvp for those really intense fights.
I usually start of with a fireball and continue casting those untill some hordie set their eyes on me. then i nova him down blink away and do another fireball followed by an instant pyroblast. Having 40% crit chance really can bypass resilience alot (and you can count on rogues and locks to have alot of that atleast) with the initial damage. And since i also put a double dot on him thats affected by spell crits the chances are that i just got him about halfway down on his hp. After that you need to get some assistance. Premade pvp is always the only option for my server atleast (we suck on pug alliance side, always lose, but premades we near win all the time) Grouping into team is the best way to counter any class cause all class have designed flaws against other classes, the only thing that changes is where this flaw is located, luckily for mages it can't change alot so we have a clear idea what can be done to counter it best possible in alot of cases.

tbh, respecc frost and pwn us. Don't whine about CloS Or our Deadly throw, You got your imba pet that does 1k NONE crits and can Frostnova. your icelance can crit for 2.4k (?)... so, GTFO or stop whining. rogues= Pure cloth killers, When your fire, you're just a little toy we like to play with.

so true, so true

one thing i have found in single pvp outside arenas is that to be really successful its a matter of timing.
rogues seem to be about stealth and then a sudden attack before vanishing quickly as posssible , so i wait for a moment of weakness or distraction.
a shadow priest one level higher than me was fighting a mob so i watched and waited.
she instantly started a fight with another two mobs and the moment she used her psychic scream she was dead.
normally i would have just left alone but this being STV and horde ganking alliance being terrible in my realm , in STV at the present time , i decided on no mercy.
i tried taking down another rogue in the arathi highlands but they did what i do , hit vanish and disappear.
at present i am sticking with mostly subtlety , i have improved stealth and movement and an instant cooldown on vanish and sprint , might get enhanced perception too?

....

Step 1. Hang around with Warriors.
Step 2. Stack up Stamina/Resilience (Like any GOOD PvPer).
Step 3. Respec Frost.
Step 4. ???
Step 5. PROFIT, in this case being, one really, really dead rogue.

As is, we're not over powered, you honestly just need to learn to play as a mage. Blink puts you in far enough range that we can't blind you or just run up to stun you inless we have Sprint on, in which case if you see us running to you, then you should pop Frost Nova. If anything, you can sheep us to get a Frostbolt or Fireball off, and from there just instant cast and kite. Besides, all our stuns were nerfed last patch or so. Now they're resisted, dodged, or miss alot more often then before. Oh, and I made an account just to say that. Care to provide your character name for the armory? Or are you a twink? >:C

mages when taken by surprise are in trouble , though locks are a pain.
i got in close to a lock the other night and was quickly beating the hell out of him when he feared me and then ran off , this was in STV.
thats the one thing priests and locks have over mages , they can force a rogue away from them and stack on damage , where as a mage has to keep distance and sheeping heals your opponent and you cant damage them while they are sheeped.
i nailed a priest in STV but i waited until he was already fighting and used his fear on the mob , then i knew he was dead hehe :D
having a lock myself , at 40 you have two fear skills you can use , one instantly , thus you can control a single rogue if he doesnt kill you quickly :)
i have been thinking of respeccing my mage though i cant really decide what to have.
i know the in thing at present is arcane/fire which can be a killer with PoM.
as for my rogue , i'm still experimenting . i recently changed my spec again to 21 combat / 10 subt.

When words dont get it done a handy little animation says it all. I completely agree lol.

Took long enough for someone to notice that..lol.