The 'geared' rant
 

So today im on my warlock, Just got it to 70 a few days ago and im looking to hit the BRD boss for at chance at some of the drops. I get invited to a group and get tossed because im not 'geared'. Im wearing all blues and one or 2 purples so its not like im in terrible gear. All i can gather is this knucklehead expected only people that had arena/raid gear for a simple 73 elite.

Ive done this fight several times on this toon already and it does NOT need the toons to be 'geared'. I would understand it if were a raid or a rather challenging heroic or even if i were trying to join a very competitive arena team. This mentality is getting worse as well. Its getting to the point where if you dont raid or pvp you will be tossed even from simple instance groups for lack of being 'geared'. It isnt there yet, but its heading that way.

Before some folks get all bent out of shape and accuse me of whining because i 'cant get good gear' keep in mind i fully recognize and accept that there are plenty of times where gear makes a huge difference. Raids, arena teams, certain heroics and so on. My gripe is the increasing frequency where people are insisting on it when its not only unnecessary but laughable.

The only thing that takes the fun out of a great game is people i guess lol.

/end rant

/cheer

I completly agree with this. I've had group members insist I throw my mage friend out because her gear is not to 'par'. She's in almost all PvP gear with a few blues and a epic or 2 from kara. Yet they still insist on kicking her. But I don't and guess what, the idiot leaves and we get another, or we complete the dungeon.

If he kicked you out, you were probably better off anyway. I wouldn't waste my time with someone as rude as that.

That's all I have to say on that matter :)
-- Shirik

Update: Well shortly after i posted my rant the chucklehead in question started posting for a lock again without the 'geared' requirement. I was also sent a tell which i politely laughed at. The irony is delicious.

And i agree it was better off that way. Just the mentality growing to the scale it is at (and it seems like no end in sight) is more what im annoyed at.

Indirect revenge is just as tasty as the real thing. :banana:

Funny thing is that I've seen "undergeared" players do better than better geared players just because the better geared ones are lazy and/or stupid.

That's because the 'undergeared' players feel they have something to prove and want to keep up with the rest of the run/raid whereas an unfortunate majority of 'geared' players already think they're the sh*t and can slack off because they're the most important person in the group. I've seen more lazy wipes and stupid mistakes from arrogant, ignorant 'geared' players than I have from undergeared ones...only because the 'overgeared' ones think they know everything because they have purples.

Actually, it's exactly like you're in terrible gear. Mostly because you are.

No, you don't need 4pc T6 and Sunwell offset pieces to do the boss, you don't even need S1 PvP gear, but you do have terrible gear, and people generally assume that people with terrible gear only have terrible gear because they don't put the time or effort into the character required to get even moderately decent gear and as such, don't have any idea what they're doing.

Yes, it's a stereotype. Yes, you got a raw deal. But you can't contribute the same way as any other person with moderately decent gear when you're wearing rags. Nobody is obliged to take someone with them to do anything in this game.

You are making WoW sound too much like real life there IMHO. The assumption is more that people who are not prepared to give up real life to play this game 24/7 are idiots and not worthy of playing with. There have been other posts on different threads here recently about the puerilty of some players and this is another symptom of that kind of juvenile attitude. "Seen with a noob" - guilty by association!! Fair enough, there are times where gear will matter but everyone has to start somewhere. I am speaking as someone who has never raided because I really don't care about it. You should see my gear!!

If that were true, why do we have LFG??

any moron with no skills whatsoever can attend enough raids or be in enough PUGs to get themselves "well-geared". gear does not overcome stupidity (which i see far too often in WoW) and gear does not equal skill (which people assume to be true too often in WoW).

i'd take a skilled but "undergeared" person over a "geared" but unskilled person any day. all the +hit gear in the world isn't going to help someone make the right judgement call when the situation requires it.

I support the preceding message! :) This is something I've been saying all along but I seem to get scoffed at more often than not. :P

huh? wait what? having all blues and some purples is having terrible gear? Whats next for wotlk? "You dont' have all epics and legendaries your gear is TERRIBAD!!!!"

I say trends like this should just stop. Its childish and ignorant.

Terrible gear = greens (in most cases) Unless the person is wearing blues that don't match their class.

as to the op of the thread. This is just like my nerd rage rant. Its yet again a problem with the wow community that we will never be able to get past. But i will say one thing though. After i wrote my nerd rage post i actually decided to stick with my own group of people and to never pug anything EVER again. And its been great. The friends of my guild have recently invited a few more of their close friends......and they are normal!1 i know right? can't believe it my self either. You should seriously just transfer to area 52 (and be horde if you arent) :P
/end rant

This is probably one of the most ignorant statements I've read on the forums in quite some time. Unless you're being completely sarcastic, you have a seriously screwed up view on WoW. You do NOT need full epics to kill a lvl 73 elite, and you do not need full epics to have you gear considered "not terrible". I'm not big on raiding (mostly due to the proliferation of attitudes like this), but I have been in Kara once and cleared the 1st boss. At the time I was a MM/SV Hunter with most of my points in MM and SV to get improved traps. Me and another hunter in the raid were passing a mob back and forth in freezing traps to keep it out of the fight throughout all the pulls up to the boss, so I wasn't DPSing the entire time, and I still got TOP DPS in a raid full of players with full epics. All I had was 4 pieces of the Stalker Set(Blue) a couple other random blues from Auchidon, the PVP Crossbow and the lvl 62 engineering goggles(the only 2 purples I had). I'll admit that there were one or two others in the group that were fairly new to raiding as well but all had more experience than I did, and I still out DPS'd everyone there.

I think a mix of blues/purples are fine for doing heroics, if the person knows how to play.

However, I do take issue with people who don't gem their epics and good blue 70 gear (even with cheap gems), and with people who have great end-game gear but don't enchant it (even cheaper enchants). Or people who get to 70 and don't wear 2 trinkets and 2 rings. Maybe that's high standards, and I allow for people who just got the gear and haven't had a chance to gem/enchant it yet, but if you can't take the effort to take care of the good pieces, I tend to have doubts that you'll make the effort to play well. And this may be awful, but I also tend to judge people on their gems and enchants. If you're a pure dps caster, and are using healing gems or melee gems, I'll assume you don't know your class, for example. I also don't care to bring someone to a heroic if they don't have a threat meter installed. Maybe this makes me a jerk. *shrug*

Note: Not saying any of this specifically applys to the OP, but having some kind of "geared" standard isn't inherently bad IMO.

i wouldn't say this makes you a jerk, nor is it particularly "high standards", but i also don't think it really means that you are applying some type of "geared standard": it just means you expect them to have the most basic understanding of their class and an IQ above that of my kitchen sponge.

that is an entirely reasonable expectation.

I would like to play as the devil's advocate here (like I usually do) but somehow I feel this may not be wise. Maybe the "rant" keyword is my hint. Anyway I think Shirik summarized it pretty well couple posts ago: either you do not care and you move on or you do care and find a Guild or new friends to play the way you want to. By the way this was a very demeaning comment toward kitchen sponges. I hope we are talking synthetic ones.

Unfortunately for most of the new "arena generation" gear is what makes you good. I'm not of that state of mind at all, I prefer people who know how to play their class with skill, not people who depend on the rest of the group to pick up their slack just because they have 'l33t gear' that they stood around in arena for while the rest of their team did all the work.

Having a mix of blues and purpoles doesn't make your gear terrible, maybe you're too busy to raid every single night or sit hour after hour in a BG waiting for your honor to climb. That doesn't make you a bad player and the people who think otherwise are ignorant and arrogant. See below;

And how does the stereotype perpetuate itself, by the above comment. Just because someone doesn't have full T6 or Sunwell loot it doesn't mean they won't focus more or try harder than Jeb the Arena Whore in a raid. Usually it's quite the opposite, as I stated before most people with less than full epics usually try harder and listen better than the amazingly geared assclowns. I've seen it and I'm currently witnessing it in the guild I'm in now.

400 is the new 300.

Listing yourself in the LFG tool does not obligate other people to invite you to their group or take you to an instance. Likewise, when you use the LFG tool to build a group, you are not obligated to bring any particular person who is listed therein.

I'm going to have to disagree. If you're wearing more than 1 or 2 blues, your gear is terrible. That said, having terrible gear doesn't necessarily correspond to being a terrible player, any more than driving a sh*tty car makes you a sh*tty person in real life. But in WoW, your personality doesn't matter, only how much you can contribute to the group. If you take two people of equal skill and equal attitude, put one of them in Sunwell epics, and the other in dungeon blues, guess who's going to contribute more to the group? Skill can make up for some gear shortcomings, but it's so easy now to run heroics and pick up great badge gear that there's really no excuse for permanently running around in blues or in Karazhan epics.

That makes no sense. You did no damage, but you did more damage than anyone else? How did your raid accomplish anything without doing any damage?

Anyway, there's not such a huge difference between dungeon blues and Karazhan epics that a small difference in skill can't make up for it.

Arena gear is generally terrible for PvE. I wouldn't touch it on my resto shaman with a ten-foot pole. I don't know why so many of you guys are making it sound like arena gear is the only thing in between dungeon blues and Sunwell epics. Badge gear anyone?

You don't need to have every night free, or sit hour after hour in a BG, to get decent gear. See above.

Why is your PvE raid inviting "Jeb the Arena Whore" in the first place? You'd probably have an easier time of it if you filled your raid with people who want to progress in PvE...

The big issue about what is 'terrible' is taking it in context of what your about to embark on. Example: If i were whining about being dropped from a raid to sunwell based on my gear i could easily expect to be laughed at. In that example i wouldnt have complained either in reality because i KNOW my locks current gear is certainly not capable of handling that skilled or not. Thats the problem i see in some of the replies. On a simple glance with no consideration for what is about to be attempted its a flatout nope you dont qualify. This boss is no harder then running arcatraz in normal mode. I look in the context of the upcoming event. Not just a general set of blinders for everything.

I realise its just the one person (in this case) as ive had no issues before or since. Im just seeing it more frequently for easier and easier things. Its going to get to the point where if your not totally twinked out every level people ill just drop you. I just think thats a bit silly.


As a side note its always nice to have a good discussion with like minded folks (well mostly). I half expected this to turn in to a flame war lol.

The simple fact is that the holiday boss isn't really that hard, and to want people geared as they would be for harder heroics and raids is silly. I've done Coren with 4 people multiple times - 3 70s and a 68. Sure the 70s were pretty well geared, but..... 4 people, and one of them level 68.

The only thing I could really see is that if people didn't realise that he's not so bad, they could look at the fact that he's level 73, and a warlock needs 16% hit to max out. If you don't have hit gear, you're missing 17% of the time. That's a lot of dps to miss out on, even if you do have a lot of spell damage. But I'll assume that "geared" people who are doing this know about the fight by now.

Anyway, despite this, and despite the fact that when the expansion first came out, other than those still in tier 3, most people probably were running Karazhan with mostly blue gear, people still have a right to run an instance how they want. If they want the fight to be over that much faster because the DPS is crazy insane over-geared, they have that right. Only they should learn to not be such a jerk about it, and if it's that important, armory the person before inviting them and be nice about letting them down.