@ Cairren, WoWI and the nUI community...
 

BS.

I'm confounded by this reaction.

1) I am still distributing nUI for free. Both here and at Curse
2) even if I did take it private, I still offer people three ways to get nUI for free.
3) I *just* openly made the offer to reconsider my stance and keep nUI public here: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=48666

I am *NOT* in violation of Blizzard's policy. nUI *IS* still freely available.

This is the reaction I get? I offer to donate everything about nUI if the community will show some support and instead I get shut down.

Do as you may. I have no control over what you choose to do. I have long appreciated the forum you gave me here at WoWI and I regret its come to this. I think you're dead wrong, but that's your call to make.

All the same, I wish you all best best. I'm sorry it came to this. It didn't have to.

I'd like to follow up with a final statement...

WoWInterface.com and the rest of the MMOUI sites would not exists were it not for the sweat equity and passion of the addon authors who create the addons that this web site and others like it distribute.

Every single penny of advertisement revenue and every single donation these sites generates for their owners is created on the backs of the addon authors who contribute their work product to these sites. Every cent of profit these sites earn, every penny of every paycheck paid to every employee of these sites was earned as a direct result of the work product of the authors who provide the addons you distribute.

I guarantee you that every check paid to the staff of these sites is larger than the sum of money all of the addons authors on these sites, combined, make in the same period.

Similarly, nearly every user interface enhancement that has been made to World of Warcraft since its vanilla days was, at one time or another, the idea of an addon author. Countless WoW players play this game with addons because it enhances their game experience. Many would not play the game were it not for those addons. Blizzard, too, has profited greatly from the ideas, the creativity and the community the addon authors have created.

Yet, the addon authors are prohibited from profiting from their work in a fair market. Both Blizzard and the sites such as WoWI profit from our labors while simultaneously demanding that we give everything of our efforts away without even the right to control who uses our software or the right to ask for fair compensation for our effort.

When WoWI removes all advertisements from its sites, and is only permitted to ask for donations on Blizzard's web site, I will accept their support for the model they back addon authors having to adhere to. When Blizzard removes the monthly fee for World of Warcraft and only advertises for donations on Microsoft's web site, I will accept their admonition that I am not allowed to seek compensation for my time and effort.

If I should be happy doing this for no other reason than my ego, then so too should WoW Interface and Blizzard. Of course, neither does.

nUI has nearly 800,000 downloads here on WoWI. There are over 30,000 posts in its forums with who knows how many imprints over the years that nUI has been hosted here. There are over 36,000 people in the "nUI+ User Group" on this site and who knows how many others who use nUI without being a part of that group. nUI has profited WoWI greatly over the years and I have always been respectful of both WoWI and the user base.

To be singled out for telling the truth that there's a growing number of abusive asshats in the gamer community and banished for having done so is pathetic. I said nothing of the good people of this community, the nUI community or gaming in general. I spoke directly to those who are rude, crude and abusive... and to imply that they don't exist is to delude yourself.

Unless and until good people are willing to stand up to those who would abuse others, we are doomed to decay. I will not be a part of that.

Frankly, I say emphatically that Blizzard and WoWI both are being two faced and hypocritical in the extreme. While simultaneously seeking to make it as difficult as possible for addon authors to freely market their work, they profit from it. While chastising me for my (paraphrasing) "bad behavior" they are coddling and perpetuating the bad behavior of others.

As much as I'm being told that I should have to suck it up and accept the rude behavior of certain elements of they user community so that the silent "good users" are not being punished, they are doing the exact same thing... WoWI closing these forums and Blizzard threatening to block nUI because of "rule violations" (again paraphrasing) punishes all of the good nUI users because of the "bad behavior" of one person.

Pot meet kettle.

So be it. WoWI has made up its mind. Blizzard will do what Blizzard's going to do. I have no control over it. In spite of the fact that I uploaded free copies to both WoWI and Curse not two days ago, in spite of the fact that I have said time and time again that there are several ways for people to get nUI for free and in spite of the fact that I have repeatedly stated that my only intent was to limit the access to nUI from people who are abusive to me, this is the result.

I can do nothing about that.

Brokenhearted
 

Let me go on record as one who has played WoW since the vanilla days and has seen a HUGE shift in game experience over the years. When I first started playing WoW, the community was one of friendship and helping one another achieve success. Teamwork was the name of the game. You built friendships, you leveled your character and you joined guilds. Joining a guild created a sense of community that has been lost over the years. When new raids came out, we all raided in BG gear, because crafted epics were still considered quality gear at that time (another thing that has been changed that I think takes away from the community of the game) and none of us could afford crafted gear and we hadnt gotten our raiding epics yet so we used BG gear, affectionately termed "ghetto epics." Since WoW has grown in popularity, two major changes have occurred that, in my opinion, have destroyed the game. The first was the loss of community. When the servers were opened up the need to join a guild really became a thing of the past because people can now raid LFG their entire playing career and never really need a guild. That destroyed something that was key to WoW being a good game. The other thing that happened was the increase of children playing the game. Vanilla days consisted of a lot more adults playing than kids and over the last 5 - 6 years, that has changed greatly and now there are a lot more kids playing. Modern children live a life of privilege that those of us over 30 cannot comprehend and they have no values, morals or character. As a result, they treat people with absolutely no respect and that is now rampant across the community of WoW and has slowly chipped away at the sense of community and friendship that was so prevalent in vanilla days and now with the LFG change, that community has been obliterated. Unfortunately, Scott has gotten caught up in that change simply by trying to stand up for himself, as is his right by the way, and the result has been heartbreaking to watch as one who has supported his efforts both morally and from time to time financially over the years. All Scott has tried to do is attempt to maintain that sense of community that was once so prevalent in the game of WoW within his own environment of development and he has been called on the carpet for it as though he had thrown a temper tantrum, picked up his toys and gone home, which he has NOT done!! I have read every email he has written since this entire ridiculousness got started and he has been very clear, very concise and very professional the entire time. He has not demanded everyone pay for his addon, (which is ALSO his right, I might add!!) he has simply asked that those who have supported his efforts in the past and been a positive force in the development life of nUI sign up for a new list so that he can sort the wheat from the chaff.

Have any one of you people who have ripped Scott's heart open considered the vast amount of time and effort Scott has freely given over the last eight years? People make good money doing what he does for FREE!! In any other realm of society, he would be charging good money to PROFIT for his efforts because as a developer, that is his right, it's his product that he developed on his own!! Yet by standing up for himself he has apparently committed the cardinal sin in this community and he hasnt even hinted that he will be charging for nUI by moving it over to a private forum. In fact, he has offered that any donations that are made be given over to a charity organization!! I think everyone at Blizzard and at WOWI and Curse owe Scott and other developers like him a HUGE debt of gratitude because if it were not for developers like Scott, WOWI and Curse wouldnt even exist, but instead of supporting him, you have chosen to cut him out of the community all together. I am appalled by the reaction of this site. I used to think this site was the best addon site there was. I will rethink that should I ever return to playing WoW in the future, which at this point I'm not sure I will do since it seems the community has only gotten worse since I left last year.

If I were Scott, I'd simply walk away and not deal with this emotional deluge anymore and take my 36,000 users with me. But he has not done that, he has continued to try to work through the misunderstandings and problems to receive even more misunderstanding and abuse. This site has lost my support and I hope the other users of nUI that have been there over the years walk away from WOWI as well.

nUI sadness
 

It is so sad to see that such a war can start over nothing. To me nUI has been a must have from the first appearance. The man did a wonderful job of it at a time when he was down and out. He has never required payment for this add on, and I feel just like any body else, he would like a few bucks for a job well done, he would also like some return for his effort. Even though one can understand that WOW does not want people riding on their coat tails, or extorting the players, I can not see why it is such a big deal if some one does receive a few bucks. This whole thing is a series of misunderstandings and a couple of rude and ungrateful people mouthing off.

If you do not like him and his opinions, leave, you are free to do so. If you like him and his work, stay. Throw a few bucks his way, say thank you and go play WOW.

Total Ignorance?
 

How illiterate or ignorant are some of these clowns???
Spiel's said it's still going to have FREE access still for months now and even uploaded updates a couple days ago.
If you're too lazy to write him a quick 10 second email for access, then you don't deserve the add-on that he's slaved away at for years and is hands down one of the most comprehensive and great to use adding available, and I've tried me all and been playing since vanilla.

And either Cairenn is just blunder-fully ignorant or just flat out lying, their thread is completely untrue.
There are multiple ways to get F
REE access to the add-on still, that only take a few seconds, including wow matrix and curse. In either case Cairenn's blind and irrational jump to false judgment is extremely unprofessional and not what you'd hope to see from an admin.
It just simply isn't true.

Don't presume to speak for authors in general, you definitely don't speak for me and I'll leave it at that for now.

^^^^^^ THIS!
This is the problem IMHO. I see it all the time in every area, not just gaming. But when every kid (talking maturity, not chronological age) has no concern of any sort of repurcussion, AND a soap box to stand on to scream obsenities from in complete anonimity this crap happens. READ WHAT THE MAN SAYS, you can still get it for FREE.
Aside form that, laisydayla is completely correct about the destruction of community. The children have REALLY dragged things down, also, that the game has become an order of magnitude easier over the years doesn't help that either. I still play, just not with the gusto I used to. It doesn't have the draw it used to as the challenge has diminished, the options have been reduced, AND the volume of screaming children has been increased. And this kind of behavior to someone who offers their work for free is just a byproduct of what Blizzard has done so far and the unfortunate turn society is taking.

Sad.... just sad.
Scott, myself and MANY others in the community are still behind you.

Regardless of your opinion on this matter, please keep it civil and refrain from insulting others (that includes calling names) over subjects like these. There's no need for that and it's counter-productive.

This ^

This conversation is, in large part, about being civil and standing up against those who are not. Please be respectful of that.

Scott, thank you for standing up to the cyber bullies of our gaming community. I empathize and stand with your desire to create a safe community that does not support such abusive and disruptive behavior. I'm saddened that others can't seem to understand this simple concept or are the ones that caused this issue in the first place. I hope that this all can be resolved quickly and without further heartache. Thank you for all your hard work on nUI and dedication to a worthy cause (eco-geeks).

well scott i say Fcuk em Fcuk em all... you've done a great job and now that your on curse i have no further reason to bookmark this site cya chapps

This is just plain sad
 

Let me be clear. I joined this website six years ago strictly so that I could use Nui. At the time it wasn't available anywhere else that I could find. I have been a subscriber to the Nui newsletter ever since, even though I haven't used Nui in a while now. The fact that some one can take their time to create something that they give away for free and then get beat up is just totally beyond me. It speks to what the gaming community has become. Not once in those six years have I ever gotten an email from Scott that I found offensive. For him to say that he doesn't want to support his "free" product for people who treat him like crap seems perfectly justified to me. I have the last years worth of newsletters still on my server and actually took the time to review each one just a few minutes ago. When we downloaded Nui we took with it a newsletter subscription. We always had the option to tag it as spam or simple discontinue it. Through the years I have read as Scott has asked for assistance to go to Blizzcon, assistance with web hosting and assistance with an environmental project that he strongly believes in. Not once in a single email has he said that my use, support of or continued download of his product was dependent on my donation. Not even in his most recent emails over the past couple of months. This treatment of someone who offers a free services is honestly beyond me.

Well said.

I really wasn't going to post a reply because in all honesty I don't think anyone really listens to what anyone has to say these days but this comment from WoWI really stuck in my gut.

Further to that note, we expected better from him, as one of our Featured Artists. Even beyond being a good member of our community, we hold Featured Artists to a higher standard.

I think perhaps WoWI should quickly recognize their incredible lack of integrity in how they treat their "Featured Artists." The relationship displayed here is truly nothing more than master and servant. True, WoWI creates a site were developers can come to host their creations however their goal is clearly not altruism. No, their pursuit is money.

To abuse another of seeking the same is ridiculously childish to the point of infantile.

Even YouTube has the integrity to share their profits with the people most directly responsible for generating their revenue and I heartily think that WoWI should quickly do the same otherwise someone will eventually build a site where developers are part of the team and not a resource to be consumed and dried up as was Scott.

Just my thoughts....

I have to go with Scott on this, especially since everything offered is available for free.

Everything else has been said in other posts. The only thing I will add is without the NUI forums being here, I no longer have a reason to visit this site everyday. My guess is I may be down to one day a week.

Bye bye add revenue.

I know this sounds silly but I found wowinterface through nUI. its the only reason I registered here in the first place. I liked nUI so much that I registered for wowinterface to get the nUI+ version. All free I might add. So if nUI leaves this site, well so will I then. I know that my solitary membership wont hurt their advertising dollars one bit, and I don't want it to. I know they are only trying to keep their website going. It is not wrong of them to take a look at their authors, but this really isn't the case here. They are making an absurd assumption like many others did. Yeah, I wish Scott hadn't had to even think of making nUI private, but can you really blame him for it?
The reaction this site had is a little short sighted don't ya think. Try researching a little more next time. I see your point about addons having to be free to be hosted here, but nUI is still free. Scott is basically just saying, hey let me know you aren't a douche and Ill keep giving you an awesome free product.

I think its an authors right to decide how his works is distributed or used, its their work after all and NOBODY should be able to tell them how or to whom they can distribute it to.

They also have or should have the right to profit from their work if they so chose to, what Blizzard and wowinterface are doing its not morally right.

If Blizzard doesnt want addons then they could easily close down the API and that would be it for everybody but they cant because 99% of the gamers need at least one addon to play (ask healers).

So in part addon authors are working FOR Blizzard when making addons yet they cant profit from that?

Ive also noticed that anybody that says "its greed" or "how can you charge for your addons" never wrote 1 line of code in their lives and think addons appear magically in a zip file.

Well wowi needs a bit of author drama every couple years to keep things from getting stale. :p
Last good entertainment of the kind was when EWOlson injected ads into his addons hosted on wowi over the wowmatrix affair.

Some of us have been sharing addons we make for free just as long without asking for some kind of medal for it.
That is because it's a hobby inside another hobby and you don't monetize your hobbies lest they become jobs.

If you want to get an idea of what motivates addon authors to share their work (it varies) you can see a recent survey with voluntary participation of several active addon authors here.
http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=48549

Of particular interest to you all might be these 2 questions / answers

So I guess he falls into the minority of "It's a job, or work, that I do for reasons other than fun".

In a sense I can understand that he doesn't appreciate the tools, convenience, hosting wowi offers but most of all just the part about being a meeting place for addon authors and users.
Minimal presence to offer or even request assistance in Developer Forums.
To share some knowledge you know?

So you have a guy who's been taking from collective knowledge in order to improve their 'product' and trying to monetize their hobby for years, finally pushing the line they've been skirting and getting called out for it.

Excuse me that I don't join the pity party and I've written and shared a few tens of thousands of lines of Lua.

I'm fully aware Blizzard is indirectly benefiting from my hobby endeavor as well as the hosting sites from ad revenue, but I didn't discover this just now... I was aware and accepting when I shared my first addon.

So when I first discovered Nui a very long time ago. I liked it, I wanted the full version. I thought at the time that it was crap that you had to pay to get the full + version of the game. But I sucked it up and went forward with a donation to the Nui cause. I thanked for it and when on my business. When Scott sent the email about his cause I was moved and thought it was good that someone in the gamer community was trying to do something. I had a funny feeling that it was going to not work and Scotts charity was going to make nothing on it.

When I got his upset letter in email. The very first one, I took it as he was pulling nui. You had to kiss ass to get nui if you were not a Premium member already. In fact there seemed to be nothing on weather there still was going to be new premium members allowed. The one thing that got me was that you had to pay in order to get Nui now. I took this as Scott having a tantrum because no one wanted to donate to his cause. His big email that was released when he told the community that some people called him names and he was going to no longer let them get nui. I took that as a huge slap in the face from him. He was punishing me and the community for some people that called him names and because we the community did not jump all over his charity.

I figuring i am wrong on this. But as someone just sitting on the side and not paying full attention. This is what i got from all of this stuff. I totally understand why wowI took away his status and wants to shut down the Nui forums.

When i got scotts first email. I was left with a bad taste in my mouth and I figured if he was going to be like that to us just over a few people then i just was not going to use his mod anymore. Its not worth it to me if this much drama is caused over a charity and some rude people that are all over the internet

Like I said i most likely wrong as I have not read everything posted. I do appreciate Scott still leaving it free . As his first email lead nothing to that happening. I do appreciate his apology to the community as well.

This seems quite appropriate right now...

"Too much is written by the men who can't write about the men who do write." ~ Jack London

Surely you understand that some people may want to treat addon development as a job and that is their choice as its yours
to treat it as a hobby.
There is a lot of market for comercial addons:

http://www.zygorguides.com
http://manaview.com/tycoon/
http://www.manaview.com/booster/

Now the question is why some people can and others are not allowed to.

Zygor's, for example, charges for their guides. You may download their addon for free. In fact, if I recall correctly, the addon is just Tekkub's TourGuide.

/edit: and the bar addon that comes with the Razer Naga is also freely available and (if I recall correctly) is a modified version of Tuller's addon.

Too much is said by both sides who supports Scott, or not, therefore i feel that i need not to add on my own opinion already. I have used nUi for as long as i have played wow. I did not unsubscribe from the newsletter even after i stopped playing wow because i appreciate what Scott has done for us and i feel like i still want to be part of that. And now that WOWi is shutting down Scott's page, i have no more reason to stay on this site and to show my disagreement with the admin's decision, i am requesting my WOWi account to be deleted completely. Thank you WOWi for providing the platform for users like me, i just couldn't stay on this site anymore for what the admin is doing to Scott. Please delete my account, thank you.

Very sad indeed
 

Having played WoW since it first came out in beta i find that the addons are what made it the game it it today end of story. Its not by calling each other names like a 5 grade school yard will fix anything but WE ALL know this is just fuel for the drama jet. I for one like many others stand by you and nUI i think without nUI i seriously would not still be playing wow with all the damn patches they made in the years that simply screwed up so many of the game play. I am a supporter of nUI its creator and any other creator of addons that make WoW simply the game it is today. Without them hundreds and thousand of peeps would probably have moved on to another game. Point blank its like the government it wont pay attention to a new product until it sees it sees its a threat.. then the gloves are off

I have been , am and always will remain an nUI supporter

P.S consider my account on wowi deleted have e a great day

why the grief?
 

I have read all the posts, and I think the main issue has been overlooked. Do we as a community stand up to rude and uncivil behavior, or do we turn a blind eye and abandon the victim of the abuse?
When I first received Scott's email inviting his newsletter subscribers to look into eco-geeks, I thought to myself, "more power to him." When you have something you care about, you want to share it with your friends, which in this case applies to the newsletter subscribers. Those that clicked the link to eco-geeks had two civil choices to chose from, donate to a cause they thought worthy or ignore it. All Scott asked was for you to go to the site and decide for yourself. He never demanded, cajoled, blackmailed, etc.. his friends to donate. He simply asked you to click the link and follow your heart. The fact that we are now at this crossroads is due to people taking the uncivil option of firing off hateful emails to Scott about his simple request.
Now put yourself in his shoes, not as a developer but as a human being. Are you going to smile cheerfully, ignore the insults and continue to be friends with these people that insulted you? No, and no one would expect you to. You would separate yourself from the hateful people and pull your "real friends" closer to you. This is all Scott said he was doing with his follow-up email. If you were not one of those haters that were put on his do not share list, you were to be added to the new, smaller list of friends. He did add an opportunity to enjoy the addon by donating to eco-geeks, so even the douches could redeem themselves, but for those of us that are civil and appreciative, all was still right in the world.
I thought this was done and over. Now Wow Interface is throwing their 2c in the ring punishing Scott for standing up for himself and choosing his friends a bit more carefully? All I can really say to that, (in a language even the haters will understand), WTF? NUI is still free, if you wasn't a douche. If the people that emailed Scott had written those mean things here on the forum, admin would have taken them down and banned the authors. But somehow it is ok to bully and demean a developer as long as it doesn't clutter up your website? I call foul.
Like others that have posted, I learned of Wow Interface through NUI, I can get my updates through emails from the author (like everyone else that signed up for the free newsletter) and never have to come back here. I do use this site for the convenience, and have found other addons here since. I do not condone the rudeness that has been shown to Scott and feel that it is important to stand by him in this.

You are wrong about Zygor the addon is a custom one and you must pay to download it or update it.

## Notes: Free multi-purpose leveling guide viewer.|n|nDesigned for use with Zygor Guides, but supporting user-supplied guides as well.
## Author: Sinus Pi for Zygor Guides

Says free but theres no free download anywhere.

Hi all,

As others, I came across Nui well looking for a ui replacement many years back. Nui is the only reason I come to this site, curse supplies the majority of my addons.

When I first saw his "angry" letter I thought, good for him.

Scott has responded to email I have sent him, even when I was borderline rude. He fixed all misconceptions I had and I ended up making a larger donation then I was going to.

After reading the OP I will be deleting/making dormant my account here, the tone coming across that post was laced with venom.

Well said, no one should have to acquiesce to the bullies of the world, if people didn't like the charity do not donate, easy as that. But people have that boost of courage via email and the web, in that they know they won't get punched in the mouth for their rude behavior, Scott simply punched them where they didn't expect. And it is about time it happened, it is time they realized that their behavior is not beyond consequences despite the enabling attitude of WOW Interface.

Steve

I've been playing wow for over 6 years, and I think there probably aren't many addons that I haven't tried out yet. I've used nUI+ for several years, and have mailed Scott multiple times, mostly with stupid questions. Never ever has he lost his patience, always answering immediately and just being helpful.

It's thanks to people like Scott, who put a lot of work in their addons, that WoWInterface has a meaning of life. WoWInterface produce an ok platform like so many others, nothing more. Useful, yes, but hardly innovating and helpful at the core which is playing WoW. If not for nUI, I wouldn't have known WoWInterface, and most certainly wouldn't have used it (I only used it for nui anways), as there are many much better platforms out there, like Curse.

If there is an author who asks for payments for his addon, which is against Blizzard policy, then each of the parties should be involved in the matter as such as their role is: Blizzard as the owner of WoW, the author who has his way of seeing things, and WoWInterface as the platform. As the platform meaning: be glad an addon author has chosen you and be glad it's thanks to that same author you get 600 000 extra visitors for your website where you don't have put any programming work in, so let the author and blizzard fight out the differences where you have absolutely no part in as you, as the website, do absolutely no work for Blizzard/WoW itself, and be quiet until they have worked out a solution. You let the authors do all the important work, let them get you visitors, and yet get paid for advertisement while blackmailing them to do whatever you want. Blizzard doesn't want addon authors to gain money on behalf of their game, yet you do exactly that: gain money on behalf of the authors. Once you remove all advertisement and run a free website, you have a right to speak.

Okay, let’s clear up a few misconceptions:

• Spiel2001 has not been banned from the site.
• He has not been suspended.
• He has not been shut down, banished or muted.
• He is still able to update existing files, upload new files, respond to posts and comments, start new threads.
• nUI has not been removed from the site.
• Users’ access to the files has not been removed.

The only thing that has happened is that his Featured Artist status has been removed. Nothing more. And even with that he still has a forum of his own, unlike any other non-Featured Artist on the site. As well as his custom groups, which still exist and that he still has complete control over just as has always been the case. And his supporter only version (nUI+) is still available to those who are members of that group, which again is still completely under his control.

As for the rest of it, I am talking to him directly.

They Bought tekkubs tour guide to stop dugi using it for his guides pretty low trick at the time.

Letters from K Scott Piel
 

I was an avid user of nUI until a couple years ago when he tried something similar to this. He posted a donation minimum on his website and said that if he didnt reach is donation minimum he would no longer provide nUI to the community as he wanted to be able to do it full time and without minimum donations he couldnt. He did ultimately change his mind however, and that was good.

That being said, I fully support his stand on the environment and wish him nothing but the best concerning the land he is trying to save. However, once again, I am being yelled at because something he wanted to happen isnt going to because he counted on a gamer community to contribute enough money to save the day.

I have posted his letters here on this forum concerning this issue because there seems to be some confusion on what was actually said. My interpretation on reading both letters was that if I didn't give money to him or to his charity, OR know someone who had, I could no longer use his addon. Sorry to all those calling from him to be able to charge, but no MMO out there allows you to charge for your time on an addon. It is their intellectual property. I personally thank K Scott Piel and others like him for making the game that much better, but you cannot charge for it. You have never been able to charge for it. You are donating YOUR time, and as I have supported many addons with a donation myself, I welcome you to ask for donations for your time. But that is ALL you can do. Feel the way you will about the system, but if someone chaged a game you had built and charged money for it, you would feel the same way.

As far as the cyber bullying or whatever, I agree with you, kick their asses off the list of being able to get the addon, but for those that have supported you for years, getting that email was hurtful and a kick in the teeth.

What the hell are you talking about? I haven't removed any of your posts.

As for not talking to you, the email is incoming. I'm sorry it hasn't been quick enough.

Well there's a great new career to have as a televangelist.

The proper mix of delusions of grandeur, self-martyrdom, a fanatical following and noble causes that just need a little bit of your money... are all there.

Blizzard's response was basically a politely worded brush off, same as they give petulant children at the forums.

As far as the newsletter business, when I signup to a newsletter I agree to receive news about x and y and a link to unsubscribe.
I am ecologically conscious, politically and socially active but I choose where to seek discourse and invest of myself.
I obviously wouldn't insult you for sending irrelevant and unsolicited crap to my email but it would go into the spam folder same as the Nigerian Prince that wants to inform me I just inherited a diamond mine if only I send him a couple hundred for the paperwork.

You dont have a clue what "intellectual property" means, its related to work created and guess who created 100% of the addon?

Using APIs does NOT constitute breach of intellectual property, go read about it in google before making yourself look like an ignorant person.

You are just another one that didnt write a single line of code in his live and expect to get everything for free and when it doesnt go his way, start screaming "greed".

And to the admin of this site, have you thought what will happen to the quality of addons when only the "amateurs" are writing them?

Are you suggesting that free software can't be of high quality? You are insulting a lot of programmers out there, including many professional ones.

The way I read this banter going back and fourth there is really only one core issue:

Scott sent a request to his subscribers to donate to a cause that is apparently important to him. The trolls smelled bait and went after him for it. He fired back at the community, basically saying everything that the majority of the community feels; at least the folks that have been around since Vanilla or even earlier. Someone at WOWI got their feelings hurt by Scott's lashing. WOWI decided to throw fuel on the fire which then alerted even more trolls.

So that's it in a nutshell.

Here is the irony. Blizzard created a mount and pet that is currently being sold on their website. A portion of the sale goes to Toys for Tots. Really...how dare they! Sarcasm aside...what is the difference between that and Scott's mission. No outrage over Blizz's actions.

Scott has a platform from which he has decided to speak. His points are valid. Site's like this one make a pretty good living off of advertising and affiliate linking, well maybe not so much since the game's decline, but still. It's money made off of the free labor of the developers. Brilliant business model, by the way, but WOWI should be showing loyalty to the devs (ie Scott) in exchange for their contributions.

[WARNING: Political Reference Incoming] WOWI asking for a public apology from Scott is like President Obama asking for an apology from Fox News for being right about Obamacare.

This really has gotten to the point of being petty. No...I take that back...it's beyond that point.

You know what? I think WOWI should publicly apologize to Scott for causing the drama. As part of that apology just make the statement that you don't agree with his position, but that you support his right to express his views. Then site the specific TOS that have been violated and work with him on it; if he's even interested anymore.

I don't normally rant in forums, but there you go. Trolls...don't bother, because I really could care less :)

I just don't understand how anyone can say the things that were said to Scott and still look themselves in the mirror. This includes the actions taken by this site. Most of these whiners have never coded an addon let alone continue to provide updates and bug fixes. Don't you morons understand how much time these people spend so you can play more efficiently. This time means the have less time to play WoW! While you are playing they are coding!

At no time did I see anyone say nUI would only be available on a paying basis. Sure they are asking for donations but then so do 90% of the authors on this site. This can be seen by the obnoxious POPUP that comes up all the time.

I agree with another poster that described the status of WoW. Not only has the latest pack been a flop but the changes allow a lot of obnoxious, self righteous kids to take over the game. These children are part of the generation that expects not asks but expects everything to be given to them! 11 million players down to 7 million players. That is a huge drop and the slide continues.

Anyhow it is too bad with stance that this site has taken. Well, Curse is a much better site anyhow.

What actions do you think were taken by us "the site"? He was not kicked off the site or addons removed.

We posted front page news about the charity and supported spiel2001 the best we could professionally and personally. Unfortunately after his goal was not reached thats when things took a wrong turn (we were asked to drop the front page news). Due to his actions we only removed his Featured Author tag. Downloads are still available, forums, etc yes there are some technical/access issues due to how we worked with him for so long and we are working on those. How many of you have donated to his charity cause? If you didn't do you think it would be ok for me to talk down upon you or berate you?

I love the nUI community you guys are a bunch of passionate and talented users and authors. Its a three way street (is there such a thing?). Take just one (authors, users or website) from the equation you don't have much. Yes users helped make what nUI is today.

At the risk of repeating what has already been said, I think it's terrible that this situation has come to this. Scott has such a valid point here, the community has changed and people take what they want and they don't give a crap who they step on in the process. I was thrilled when they announced the looking for dungeon tool. I was a guild master with only one max level toon and could only run with one group for the frost emblem. So I started leveling more to help other guildies and then randoms were introduced. I could run with everyone, and it was amazing! But then I noticed people started treating "pugs" like NPCs; like there wasn't even a real person behind the character they were running with. The first random I ran was met with a very rude person. And most groups I've ran with since are so focused on what they want that they don't even say hi or thanks anymore. There is so little consideration fro other people and what they may want or need. I know this isn't about Blizzard or their in-game functions, but it's not very different. Scott offers and amazing addon; I would be lost without it. Or I would be downloading 10 other addons to build one like his. He does this for free out of the love of his art and for the community. He asked for help for something he believed in, and instead of just not participating, people spit in his face. How hard would it have been to quietly delete the email and move on? I have several addons and I understand that it would be costly for everyone to donate to every addon they used, but that doesn't mean you get to take these free services for granted. If you don't agree with what the author is doing, and can't live with it, then take the high road, uninstall the addon, and move on. Show some maturity. Like others have said, Scott, many of us still stand behind you! Thank you for all your hard work.

No, this is very much not true. You are implying that because he did not get what he wanted that things went south. It's when the trolls on his mailing list decided that a simple request from him required a response that was anything but civil. THAT'S what started this whole thing.

Sad and very wrong decision :(
 

I have used NUi for free for so long now and as everyone else has said in this thread, Scott offers multiple ways of accessing this amazing addon for free.
I'm just so shocked and astounded that this has happened. Scott deserves an apology and thanks for his wonderful work. This is the first time I have posted but, Scott, let me tell you that I appreciate and thank you for all your hard work and you have my support in everything you do.

Please delete my WOWI account
 

All I want to say, because anything else I would add has already been eloquently expressed by others,
I support Scott, as his add-on has supported my game play.
And to WOWI to paraphrase a song:
"take this site and shove it" I won't be coming back here.

So much, THIS:

"Let me go on record as one who has played WoW since the vanilla days and has seen a HUGE shift in game experience over the years. When I first started playing WoW, the community was one of friendship and helping one another achieve success. Teamwork was the name of the game. You built friendships, you leveled your character and you joined guilds. Joining a guild created a sense of community that has been lost over the years. When new raids came out, we all raided in BG gear, because crafted epics were still considered quality gear at that time (another thing that has been changed that I think takes away from the community of the game) and none of us could afford crafted gear and we hadnt gotten our raiding epics yet so we used BG gear, affectionately termed "ghetto epics." Since WoW has grown in popularity, two major changes have occurred that, in my opinion, have destroyed the game. The first was the loss of community. When the servers were opened up the need to join a guild really became a thing of the past because people can now raid LFG their entire playing career and never really need a guild. That destroyed something that was key to WoW being a good game. The other thing that happened was the increase of children playing the game. Vanilla days consisted of a lot more adults playing than kids and over the last 5 - 6 years, that has changed greatly and now there are a lot more kids playing. Modern children live a life of privilege that those of us over 30 cannot comprehend and they have no values, morals or character. As a result, they treat people with absolutely no respect and that is now rampant across the community of WoW and has slowly chipped away at the sense of community and friendship that was so prevalent in vanilla days and now with the LFG change, that community has been obliterated."

Laisydayla nailed the problem with WoW more perfectly than I thought possible.

As far as NUI goes, I used it a bit back in LK. I thought it was pretty cool at the time, but I downloaded NUI 6 and it was a lot better, cleaner. I kept waiting for NUI 6 to come out and I got email after email talking about all the work that's been done on it over the years, but it's still in Alpha? I dunno. I bounced around from compilations to UI replacements and now I've been using ElvUI for over a year; the longest I have ever used a single UI.

People can hate and troll all they want, but if I paid for every addon I used, I wouldn't be able to afford to play WoW and the fact that I use some for only hours or days and I'm over it would mean I would be out a lot of money for nothing.

The email Scott sent out on Nov 14 was pretty rude imo. He was lashing out at the NUI community (which I don't claim to be part of, I just read the newsletters because honestly my gf and I are wanting to see how many expansions NUI 6 is going to be in development.) as a whole, it seems, because he didn't get the donations to Eco-Geeks he was looking to get. As far as people being a-holes to him, it happens in every walk of life. Where I work, people will be rude to me one day then need my help the next... "Oh you want my FREE help after all the nasty things you said to me earlier?"... it happens. Either way he was lashing out at EVERYONE.

He said he only asked for 3 simple things:

"1) Please look at my link at and read my storyhttp://igg.eco-geeks.org
2) Please consider supporting my goal with a contribution… if only because it is important to me
3) Please share my goal with people you know who would appreciate the intent"

How does he know people didn't read the story?
How does he know people didn't share his goal with people they know?
The ONLY thing he would know for sure is that people didn't donate.

So logic would conclude that the incensed newsletter was inspired by the lack of donations by "asshats" (read NUI community) who use the "fruits of his labor", who ""profit" from his work" who use his free software. So in effect, if you have used his software and you didn't donate, that letter was directed at you. So I agree with WoWI that Scott was rude to his community when they failed to take up his banner and run with it.

Do I believe addon authors should be able to profit from their software, yeah to a point. I mean if we all of the sudden HAD to pay for addons and stated getting nickel and dime'd at every turn, people would either a) stop playing or b) play with no mods. Period. I HATE the stock UI so my choice would be stop playing.

As for myself, I don't ever email addon authors and berate them as to why something doesn't work. It's free and not only that, there are so many people that make similar addons, simply find one that's working and carry on... I did.

can i ask the admins.... if scott wished you to remove nui and all related content from the site would you???

as i see it your making money off his hard work... and now you have kicked him in the balls your still making money of his hard work...

Since Scott is not posting here anymore, I thought you all would like to see this latest message from Scott to his nUI group:

I wanted to take a moment to update everyone on the status of nUI, its availability and to try and clarify a few things that seem to have some folks confused.

Let me start with this: this has never been about the success or failure of the eco-geeks.org campaign. Personally, I could care less if any individual contributes to the campaign, or not. Certainly I hope they will, and I’ll be disappointed if they don’t, but I absolutely do not expect it and never in a million years would I have a cow because they did not. I don’t see the eco-geeks.org campaign as having failed at all., for that matter. In fact, I feel better about it every day and remain convinced it can succeed and will succeed.

This issue is, and always has been, about the behavior of a certain select subset of the “people” who are on the nUI mailing list and use the software I produce. It is, and always has been about their uncivilized, abusive, bully behavior. I will not suffer a fool, tolerate a tyrant or bow before bullies. Not now. Not ever. If anyone believes that they can profit from my hard work while simultaneously abusing me, be it verbally or otherwise, they are grossly mistaken.

The events of the past few weeks has never been about punishing the good people, about having to get paid for nUI, or about eco-geeks.org. This has been, and remains, about one thing and one thing only… I will not allow people who cannot behave in a polite and civilized manner to profit from my work.

This brings me to WoWInterface.com who publicly lashed me for my stance and demands I apologize for the comments I have made about the gaming (WoWI?) community in my posts over the last several weeks. I can assure you it will be a cold day in hell before I will apologize to anyone for standing up for myself in the face of brats, bullies and tyrants. If no one is willing to look a jerk dead in their eye and tell them that their behavior will not be tolerated, our community is forever lost. I won’t back down. Ever.

I have said my piece at WoWInterface and I have logged off of their site. I will not return. They can rationalize to themselves however they want about how this is all my fault, but I will not change my mind or yield to pressure to appease the whining masses. Nor will I continue to help them earn subscriptions and advertising revenue while they coddle the ill-mannered and uncivilized factions of the gaming community. It’s a matter of principle to me.

Unfortunately, I cannot delete nUI from their site. Nor can I remove my forums from their site. However, I will no longer read their forums nor will any nUI updates be posted to their site. To that end, for the time being, you can find nUI+ and nUI6 both freely available for download at Curse.com

nUI+ is at http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/nui
nUI6 is at http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/nui6/

To clear up another matter, regarding Blizzard’s policy for add-on authors, nUI is *not* in violation of their policy. Blizzard and I have had direct communication (as evidenced by the e-mails I had posted on WoWI) and they are in agreement that I am not violating their policy. They have stated, flatly, that they have no interest in being involved in how I choose to distribute the add-on and are in agreement that I am complying with their guidelines. End of story. The good news is that nUI is not going away. While I vehemently disagree with their add-on policy, I respect their authority on the matter and will always ensure that I remain compliant with it so as not to deny my user community their use of nUI.

And that being the case, let me close with this: I have received hundreds of e-mails from nUI users. A few have admittedly been relegated to the asshat club but, for the most part, the wheat has clearly been separated from the chaff. I am humbled, and deeply touched, by the things I have read... the things you have taken the time out of your day to share with me. I assure you that I have read each and every e-mail sent to me – though I am still a couple hundred emails behind – and I have saved each and every e-mail and e-mail address. While it is not possible for me to respond to every e-mail I have received, I assure you that everyone who has e-mailed me (and been respectful and civil) will be a part of the “inner-circle” to which I referred some time back. You will all be invited and I am deeply honored to have you as a part of the nUI family.

Until such time as I can get the web site reworked to support the access controls I need to filter out those who lack the capacity to be civil and respectful, nUI+ and nUI6 will remain freely available to everyone at Curse.com – after that, I assure you that you will continue to have access to nUI and my support… whether your choose to contribute for it or not. I hope you will, but it is *never* a requirement.

So, to you all… I thank you for your support, I am humbled by your words of courage and compassion and I remain forever in your service…

Scott.

You gotta be kidding
 

Hang in there Scott, don't let the less thoughtful folks get to you. You do great work. Only nice thing about this situation is that I will no longer need to bother with WoWI :banana:

Whoa, whoa, whoa. No where did we ask him to apologize to the ones who were rude to him. We asked him to apologize to our community, because he was yelling at everyone. We most assuredly do not consider the trolls and jerks as part of our community. We have rules against trolls and jerks. Specifically the very first two points:

Yes.

Saddened by all of this.
 

I joined this site as a supporter of nUI based on Scott's recommendations and directions as a developer as this being his preferred method of distributing an interface that changed the game for me. I'm older, and I have problems with my hands. nUI enabled me to stop fumbling my way through quests & dungeons as the laughing stock of younger players who had no patience or understanding of my sometimes slow responses. I was one of the founding members of Shattered Jade on Garona and an officer in that Guild for years. nUI allowed me to not only keep up with the youngsters, it enabled me to help the members of my Guild and it now enables me to do the same for the new Guild I'm in.

I chose to become a supporter of nUI, and I make an annual payment.. not for the addon itself, let me make this perfectly clear.. I've used nUI+ for years and I still use it for FREE.

I chose to show my support and to also assure that I have access to test builds, alpha, & beta code because:
A) I would not enjoy the game if it were not for Scott's efforts
B) I used to be a software developer and I will always show my support for other developers
C) The **%%$$$ players, and users of these forums, who have no respect for anyone, in game, out of game, in forum, as a developer, or as a person have p!$$3d me off too.

I'm also a curse.com user, and since I can now get automatic updates via my subscribed curse client for nUI+, this entire site, and all of the politics associated with it no longer matter to me. What does matter is that I, Scott, or any other human being on this earth be treated with respect.

"What we have here is.... Failure to Communicate!" << This single quote sums up this entire charade, and that's what really saddens me.

Pryzk aka Ðiable

His reason for being angry was the abuse leveled at him by some members on the email list, for simply sending them an email detailing the possibility of donations. As for his email venting his anger at the attacks, the email should have found them merely informational for anyone that was not part of the attacks on him. The reason to make everyone aware of the problem is that it is easier to inform the community as a whole of the situation rather than wasting ones time trying to reason with that element of the community individually.

As for those responsible for the attacks, their behavior was not just rude it was an emblematic act of petty arrogance towards a man that has spent years providing them a free add-on and reading who knows how many complaints and request emails over that time. For one of those people to be shocked that an author would have a negative reaction to their attacking them is merely a glaring indicator of how deeply ingrained the sense of entitlement has become amongst the WoW community.

If an individual does not wish to donate, fine, but there is no need to be a tool about the issue especially when receiving that email is the only price they have ever paid for his work.

Additionally, the add-on is still available for free through Curse, something that his critics have repeatedly ignored. WoW Interface is the only group that felt some sort of 'retribution' against Scott was necessary, Blizzard feels the situation is fine as does Curse and thus far so do the donating members of the NUI community from whom I have seen responses.

Steve

It sounds like Scott wants his stuff taken down. He said this a couple of times in various posts "Unfortunately, I cannot delete nUI from their site. Nor can I remove my forums from their site." He can't delete anything because he's locked out, so the admin of this site should follow through with their "yes" answer and remove nUI and the forums

(a) He isn't locked out.
(b) He hasn't asked us to do so.

according to Scott's post here, he's been locked out:
Okay, let’s clear up a few misconceptions:

Spiel2001 has not been banned from the site. <- true (so far)
He has not been suspended. <- sorta true -- I have not, my forums have, as was my status
He has not been shut down, banished or muted. <- sorta true... you removed my public response to your public lashing of me. I'd call that muted. The forums are all locked, I call that shut down. Modify any of the "nUI+ User Group" features.
He is still able to update existing files, upload new files, respond to posts and comments, start new threads.<- not true - the forums remain locked, except this one and all of the "nUI+ User Group" files remain locked to me
nUI has not been removed from the site. <- true (so far)
Users’ access to the files has not been removed. <- true

The only thing that has happened is that his Featured Artist status has been removed. <- not true. The forums remain locked, download areas for the premium nUI stuff remains locked
Nothing more. <- not true (see other notes)
And even with that he still has a forum of his own, unlike any other non-Featured Artist on the site. <- sorta true... I just can't post to it, nor can anyone else.
As well as his custom groups, which still exist and that he still has complete control over just as has always been the case. <- not true. I cannot control them, nor can they be accessed from the menus
And his supporter only version (nUI+) is still available to those who are members of that group, <- true
which again is still completely under his control. <- not true

That post does not say that he has been locked out. It says that the NUI forums were locked (which is because NUI is not a Featured Project). Cairenn was kind enough, however, to leave this forum that were are having this discussion in unlocked so that you all may discuss NUI still and discuss its future (be it here or elsewhere). He did lose access to a couple of files due to the change in status, however this was not intentional. As soon as it was brought to attention, it was remedied and Scott has the proper permissions again to edit these files.

WOW!!!! Just WOW!!!!
 

I have never really been one that has gotten involved with forum debating. I am throwing my hat in the ring on this one. I have been a long time user of nUI and Scott. he has provided a very useful and innovative "product" to the masses without demanding a dime from anyone. With the recent lashing he has gotten by asking for a little help for a cause he holds near and dear, I don't blame him for what he has done. Then to have the very site that he has hosted his addon on ever since I could remember, turn their back on him in the manner that they have. This repulses me. I would like to point a few things out here.

1. Scott never has and never will "require" anyone to pay for his add on. With the out lash that has ensued, I don't blame him. Why condemn a man for standing up for himself?

2. There has never been any advertisements, promotions or nag screens in any of Scott's works.

3. There has never been or will be a time limit. It has always been free to use.
Then to say that featured artists are held to a higher standard. There has not been many that has a "higher standard" than Scott has fro all these years. This just upsets me to no end. Scott never required anyone to donate to his charity to gain access to nUI. He simply reached out to a community that he held dear for a little help. I for one donated. It's a worthy cause. It saddens me that others decided to berate him rather than step up. My faith in this site and some of it's "community" has been shattered. I came to this site daily to get updates on nUI and Carbonite. I can now get them both elsewhere. I stand with Scott on this one. Keep up the good work Scott.

I am sorry, but this effectively contradicts your statement posted at: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/a....php?f=98&a=29

You are actually asking him to apologize in line 26.

I will pursue this no further, and I do not expect a response to this.

I am honestly surprised to see this happen. To me it looks like a case of misinterpretation. Granted I do not have the various communication sent back and forth at hand, nor would I care to. But from a bystanders point of view it looks like communications and intentions gone wrong.

Scott has always provided his work for free. I have donate to him yes. Not because he told me to, but because I respect the time and effort he has put into his work.

Try to put yourself in his shoes. How would you react if you had to consistently deal with people insulting you. I am sure you deal with a lot of this here on these very forums. You could even argue that Scott should simply just delete those rude emails. He didn't and while his comments could have been temperred with caution or reason or whatnot, then I believe it incorrect to subdue someone for drawing up their limits.

Best regards,
Eystill

So, you are saying that this (from what you quoted)
Contradicts this (from what you linked)?
I just want to make sure we're on the same page. :)

The emphasis is mine.

What, specifically, did you interpret as Scott yelling at everyone? Text is a very poor medium for conveying tone, and is often misinterpreted because of the interpreted tone. Tone can completely change the meaning of even the most calmly stated thought put to paper.

Scott has been vocal about a select few. I haven't taken anything he has written as being insulting to the community or derogatory. Indeed, he has continually praised and exalted the community.