[Led ++]

Princeton's definition of religion says it is "a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny". While you may not believe "in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny", you still recognize that you do not believe this, so you, in effect, partake in religion. So, in other words, I believe you do need religion as everyone partakes in it

Well you can't not participate in religion, cause it's everywhere. Does that make it right?

But atheism, I can't wrap my head around - how can one not believe in any "higher power"? Whether it be someone or something - do you really believe that we are just here? - that planets, animals, life, gas; everything is just here?

So because we don't know everything about the creation of our universe we should all believe in some kind of power that made everything for some kind of purpopse?

I think we're just an effect from what happened to our planet in it's first billion years. A reaction. How did this universe came to an existence? I honestly don't know, but we do have various leads which lead to logical assumptions. We know we don't know everything, but that doesn't matter. It's only logical people 4000 years ago gave some explanation and meaning to it. But that doesn't make it true, certainly not 4000 years later when we discovered so much.

I truly believe we are "just" here yes. Our life in this universe is of no importance. At all. The only meaning we can give ourselves is what we do on earth (so far). We're on this planet and we just have to make the best of it. Someday we might all just die (meteor, the sun dying, ...).

Anyway I wouldn't vote for anything specific as some people are deeply religious (mostly by tradition) and if you think their religion is obsolete they may rage on you and call you things.

If they rage, throw tomatoes or shoes at me, call out a Fatwa, whatever. They're just proving my point.

A modern society can be defined in about 2545745552131645728 ways

With a modern society I meant the USA, Belgium, France, Germany, Holland, China, ... you get the idea. I'm well aware that religion has a different meaning in other parts of the world where it basically is their only tool to survive. I'm talking about economical, cultural, scientifically, technological, .. countries yes.

As for religion, well that term is even more ambiguous.

Basically any organised form of religion. It has nothing to do with rituals. Rituals get used in religion yes, but they can just be used without religion too. It has nothing divine in it. Ofcourse in this discussion it's mainly about the major religions, which can very for every country. Clearly no football

You now have to define "necessity" as well as everything that entails. Do you mean necessity for the society as a whole or for the individual? Is your society tolerant of religion? Is it tolerant of multiple religions? Can you pick a religion or do you have to choose the one imposed by the state.

As I said, I find that everyone has the right to worship whatever space dad he wants. In private. That doesn't mean they can't be organised, it just means they don't have anything to do with the nation. Tho this would mean that for example schools, would have to be under the watching eye of the nation. (Would you want to send your kid to a school where they get creationism instead of evolutionary biology for example?)

Now I don't know anything about making or changing a society of course, I'm just raising the question. But isn't the society as a whole also the individual? If you want to have a good society for everyone you have to look at the individuals. There will always be people who have it better of course, but the difference is gigantic this moment.

You live in Belgium, Led. Belgium is largely catholic. It's a monopolist system, in the sense that other religions are regarded as "outsiders" and are generally only practiced by foreigners.

It's true that Roman Catholicism is the main religion in belgium yes, however it is not the only recognized one. You are free to believe in what you will. All the other recognized religions get funded by the government too. However, EVERY Belgian inhabitant pays taxes to the Church, that's just how it works. The number of people that pay aren't counted by their belief. It's just the population number that gets used for this. So you, me, my local kebab store owner, the Chinese restaurant owner ... everyone who pays taxes pays to the Church. That's how our taxes system work. Churches, priests, religion teachers, .. get payed by the government.

But yes, our politicians aren't that influenced by Christian beliefs, but I'm pretty sure it's still in there somewhere. Well, it's been like 2 year since we actually HAD a government but ah well.

Now if you look at the United States, guess what. There is no religious monopoly. There is not "one" religion that is being "imposed" to everyone.

Neither is it in Belgium. However I'm quite sure that the main religion in America is still Christianity. I don't think they ever had a president that's not Christian (and surely not an atheist).
Even in their Senate which is how big? Somewhere in the 300 or 400 people, there isn't (or barely is) any atheist. In one of the elections (I don't know for what exactly tho) there were more candidates that believed in the story of Adam and Eve then in evolution. The people leading the USa are people that believe in the talking snake, and that a woman came out of a rib etc. I for once wouldn't want people that think like that run my country.

If the state provides everything the individual AND the community need to function properly, then religion is largely not needed. Religion is only used to fill the "gap" left when the state doesn't satisfy all your needs.

And is that because they think Jesus would do that, or is it because it fills their pockets with a whole lot of money? And where does the money from the Church come from? And again, I don't believe for one second that we need religion for morality. Religions morality at it's core isn't even something I would teach my children (if I had any). We are a smart race, we evolved beyond anything else on our planet, our brain is big enough. We don't need a god to tell us what's good or not. We can think about that for ourselves. It's in our nature. Like we know that murder is bad, it's bad for our species. But that doesn't mean a human wouldn't be able to murder. Everyone is able to murder. The nazis are a fine example of that. We, as humans, can build a society on our own which isn't based or influenced around dogmas.

As for what people actually believe in? Stop fooling yourself.

So because we don't know we're not allowed to pick a side? Or we're not allowed to discuss and search for the answers?

what's the difference between believing God created the world cause some guys in black coats said so or believing a huge explosion created the universe cause some guys in white coats said so?

It's quite big. Now believing that a god just created our world and that's it (Deism), wouldn't be to bad. However a god that made our world, told us what to do and what not to do, who to hate/murder and who not is a whole other thing. Especially when people have different gods every 500km (so to speak). Cause that god in itself is already discriminating. Not only towards other gods, but also at minorities like gay people for example. Things like abortion, stem-cell research etc. The answer whether a god made our universe and us, or whether he didn't sounds far more important then the question whether aliens exist. (Which they probably do btw)

You're right, I don't know the answer. I'm not 100% sure that the Big Bang is real, but scientifically speaking I can quite easily say it's the latter. Only time, time that I won't be seeing, will tell.

I'm not telling people they're wrong (altho I think they are). I'm trying to get them out of their bubble and think rational for a minute. Even tho I know it's almost pointless because faith is something strong.
And yes, to a certain point I do think that religion is actually dangerous.

As long as people don't grow up with all necessary ethics, peace, love and understanding implemented in their DNA... mankind needs every help it can get.

Bad things happen, it's in our system. Religious people do bad things, non religious people do bad things. Religion won't help people be "perfect", it never has.

Education, social security, health security, .. those are things that help you become a better person, or a better society in general.

There is a Yes or No, cause I'm not talking about the existence of a god. I'm talking about the need for religion in society.