flaming? your opinion.

Xerik · 05-13-08, 11:12 AM

So im being told by seerah that im flaming by putting down "the admins are acting childish" After I had put down that the mazzle UI needed to be reworked or passed on. I had stated that mazzle doesn't play any more and has the complex "mine not yours". I suggested that it be handed to the community to fix it. I also said that the whole "mine not yours complex" is acting childish. So in theory i called mazzle and some other people childish. Well apparently that was a flame or trying to cause a problem. I also had stated that there are people who don't know how to go into a .lua and fix the perimeters. I can barely do it myself. I was saying that we needed to let some one new work on the add on and that it needs to be passed around to get it to work and posted. Well seerah dont delete this. Let others speak their mind on this topic. (btw yes i did say that admins needed to grow up cause i had said deleting a post that stated my mind and not flaming any one)

Rigorous · 05-13-08, 11:21 AM

its Mazzlefizz's work and he has a right to protect his work in whatever way he sees fit. and a right to do it without being called names.

what is it with people's sense of self-entitlement these days?

Xerik · 05-13-08, 11:32 AM

I agree with you. But at the same time to put "send money to mazzle" is kinda ridicules and not even work on it or even play the game from the posts Ive read. I know she as given it to some one else. But mazzle doesnt know what happened to them. The torch needs to be passed on. If you had a add on you loved and the owner said "yea they are working on it but i still have the option in the add ons that says you can send me money for the add on support, but im not playing any more or going to work on the add on" would you want to send them money agian?

Evolution85 · 05-13-08, 11:32 AM

I have always been of the opinion that if an Author is not going to continue supporting a mod/add on/comp they should turn it over to another (fans update) or remove it altogether.

That being said, it is Mazzles project to what he/she wants. And if has come to a point where you no longer enjoy it maybe it is time to find another.

Xerik · 05-13-08, 11:41 AM

Thats the thing the one thing that always draws me back is the auto lay out feature. Thats one thing mazzles ui has that hardly any one else has. After it would be fixed id add my own add ons and remove the ones i dont want or need. I think a lot of people would agree that the whole lay out can be copied and such but its the auto lay out feature that its the best. But yea Ive already made like 3 new UI's that i totally love and use all the time. But its still that auto lay out feature that draws me back.

Xerik · 05-13-08, 11:47 AM

why was the post about the paypal thing removed? that was not a flame? or atleast from what i could tell.

Evolution85 · 05-13-08, 11:52 AM

If you like the auto layout type of UI try http://www.wowinterface.com/download...SpartanUI.html

Ansu has redone this (its still in Beta) and its excellent. It still has a few bugs but they are being worked out. And it has VERY low memory and CPU usage.

Xerik · 05-13-08, 11:53 AM

but how is the raid frame lay out :P. Eh i could always use x-perl i guess

Petrah · 05-13-08, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Xerik

why was the post about the paypal thing removed? that was not a flame? or atleast from what i could tell.

I removed my own post because after thinking about what I had said, I decided my statement was better left unsaid. No one forced me to delete it, and no one asked me to remove it.

Just because I deleted my post does not mean that I do not agree with you.

Mazzlefizz · 05-13-08, 08:54 PM

I am not posting here because my dog was bored and wanted me to do something. He did bark three times though. I will say that I will not delete this post occasionally, but it's only because my pussy cat just meowed. That does not does not mean that I agree with her and don't want to not delete it.

I just wanted to clear that up.

Jzar · 05-13-08, 10:52 PM

Good gosh... If you like the UI, use it. If you don't, then don't. Right now, as it sounds like it's broken out of the box and most people don't want to deal with fixing it, that would probably put it in the category of "don't like it". So don't use it. If you can patch it up and still like it, then use it.

If the addon still contains a link to pay the author, you're welcome to do so or not. I would stake my 70 Mage that if you compare the number of hours Mazzle spent making this thing to the amount of donations that have come in, she's been making less than $1 / hr. This isn't about the money. I would love to hear that the community, in gratitude for the work she did and how long it did last, continue sending her donations on through WotLK.

There's certainly something to be said for a UI that automatically configures itself. It "Just Works". Honestly though, for those who've fallen in love with Mazzle, you're not babies anymore. Now that you know what a mod is and how to use an interface dialog, you can configure *individual* addons too. Try making your own UI. You might actually discover a slightly modified version of the Mazzle setup that makes more sense to you.

It should also be said that I've never used the Mazzle UI, or any other UI compilation. I have somewhere around 230 folders in my addons directory, and I like being familiar with each of them and knowing what they do. I'm not partial for or against this UI or author. Personally, I don't see why Mazzle doesn't release this to the community; I'd rather see the work I started continue to flourish in the loving hands of others. But that's just me.

I stand by Mazzle in this completely. Quit your whining, and go back to playing the game. I guess this thread technically isn't about Mazzle, it's about whether or not you were flaming. It sounds like you weren't out to insult people explicitly, so probably not. But excessive whining does come nearer to it (you've replied to half the posts in this thread with more points, explanations, etc.) You sound like a 9 year old repeating, "But Mommy, he LOOKED at me first!" Just grow up.

Xerik · 05-14-08, 12:04 AM

Yes your totally right. I totally forgot that making a add on is about making money. Not about the game or anything else. No... what im saying is if you make a add on and share it with others its sometthing that should be free and you shouldnt have to be paid for. Its like me with my hobbies I take professional level photographs and give them out for free and i dont take tips or donations. I do it cause I love it cause its what makes me feel good and i enjoy doing it. but to pay some one to work on a add on they dont work on any more. that was the point i was saying. It would be like having a security system you paid for... but the security people stopped working on it to do something else. But you still pay them for a service they arnt even giving. Thats my point. I also agree that if you are tired of a broken down UI every update then move on to a add on that you can build yourself. But its like I also said. There are some people on WoW who dont know how to do that kinda stuff. I knew a few already. Heck im still learning how to create graphical UI for myself. Ive already moved on. So have a lot of other people most likely. What im saying is. The UI needs to be given to some one else or just totally removed. Heck I dont even know who is working on mazzle ui any more. ive heard like 4 different people were working on it and its still not done or out. I agree mazzle did put a lot of work into it and i more than am happy to applaud them on it. It is a one of a kind add on. and mazzle im sorry but what ROFL that post was confusing. were you hyper at the time? *not insulting cause i get hyper as well* Ive already said what i think and thats what ill stick to. Frankly its not the "but mommy they looked at me first" type situation. Im just saying that i agree with a lot of other people that if you dont want to work on it... pass it on... thats what im trying to say about mazzle ui. Any who im starting to repeat myself now. Thats when the discussion needs to end.

Zyonin · 05-14-08, 01:51 AM

Xerik, had you actually read the various posts Mazzlefizz has made recently, you would have read that "eventually" MazzleUI will be patched. There is no ETA however a patch will eventually be coming. Thus the UI is not "Abandoned".

A piece of advice, when you type word walls, (such as the post before mine), break it up in smaller paragraphs. It makes the post much easier to read.

***Dolby*** · 05-14-08, 02:02 AM

Wow, lots of drama in here. I think every one would feel a little better if we all took one of these

... (all the cool kids do it)....

MidgetMage55 · 05-14-08, 02:03 AM

It is Mazzle's UI. Mazzle makes the calls on how it gets handled.

That being said there is one simple fact that people are totally missing. The folks that provide code alterations and so on do so of their own free will. I know people who love the interface appreciate this. There is a possibility no one will release fixes for it at some point in the future. If this happens then it will fade out as other UI's have done. Life will move on.

Those that have come to rely on Mazzle UI will have the same options they face now. Work with what your given or move on.

It isnt the responsibility of a mod author to continue making a product as a courtesy for people if they choose to move on from the mod or in this case the game itself. Mazzle didnt create the dependency people have on the UI. They did that to themselves.

Yes i have used the UI. I did so shortly after it was released. Wasnt for me so i moved on. Fantastic idea, as well as great design. But my feelings on this issue remain the same.

What Mazzle chooses to do about this is their choice, and theirs alone. Im sure the numerous people that still go through the paces and try and get it working (even if it is a bit daunting) are glad it hasnt been pulled. If they didnt care they would have already moved on.

Now to the point of this thread (and my ramble). Do i think you were flaming? No since that usually has malice attached to it which i didnt see as being the case. I see someone that loves a UI but doesnt want to deal with the fairly hefty amount of work to get it going. And im in agreement with you. What i dont agree with is people making the demands on Mazzle for what they *should* be doing. You decide what to do with your skills and free time as you see fit. As does Mazzle.

A patch is coming. It will happen when it happens. If it doesnt ... so be it. People should really accept Mazzle's position on this. Asking nicely is one thing but at this point its gotten out of hand with people making demands.

Love it or leave it. Please be considerate of someones work and let them decide how it is handled.

MidgetMage55 · 05-14-08, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by Dolby

Wow, lots of drama in here. I think every one would feel a little better if we all took one of these

...

Got one of those is a cherry flavor? =)

**Seerah** · 05-14-08, 09:58 AM

I've been staying away from this thread so that I don't say anything that I would regret. Xerik, you got your wish. People said that you weren't flaming. But they also did not see the exact posts that you made or the PMs that you sent to myself and Cairenn. They only got your summary of what you said.

You also have to take it in context. Posts like yours in the Mazzle forum come around once a week or so. With the intent to guilt the author, incite drama, and cause a ruckus. It is Mazzle's forum, and we usually leave Mazzle to delete posts as he sees fit. But I saw it first, I saw the tone, and I guess I hadn't slept well or something. You say that there are tons of posts like that around these forums, but I don't see any. I kindly pointed you to the site rules, and I received a sassy PM in return and found another thread on the forums by you badmouthing the site and its staff. So I kindly pointed you to the site's rules again and pointed out a couple specifically. That resulted in nasty PMs to both myself and (a very nasty one to) Cairenn.

In your original post, you said that you had moved on from MazzleUI and could live without an automatic layout feature. Then why try to start drama? And then why turn around and say that you can't live without it?

You've mentioned people that can't deal with lua. Then MazzleUI isn't the UI for them. This has been said in the Mazzle forums before.

As for the donating thing, Mazz doesn't actively ask for donations anymore. Anyone who does donate, does it of their own free will. They're not paying for the current product. They're sending gratitude for what Mazzle put into it over the past 2 years. And I believe you misunderstood Jzar when you referenced something he said. He said that it's *not* about the money. And it's not. I am well aware of how many man hours went into the MazzleUI project. I don't think you are. Mazzle hasn't let it go because there are people who depend on it. And he keeps a watch over it because he wants to be sure that it is kept to his standards. It's not his fault that someone says they'll update it and then never does.

Anyway... Mazzle has stated his reasons in the Mazzle forum. Several times. If you don't agree with them, then that is fine. You don't have to. But you also don't have to use that UI.

I, too, used MazzleUI for a short time when it was first released. Like midgetmage, I decided that it wasn't for me. I then went on to release my own UI compilation. And have since dropped support for it, as it was too much for me at the time to keep up with.

I'm sorry if you felt so offended by me yesterday. Perhaps I was being sensitive yesterday - who knows? But I did try to keep it civil, polite, and private. Would you prefer now that I go undelete your threads?

Xerik · 05-14-08, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Seerah

I
In your original post, you said that you had moved on from MazzleUI and could live without an automatic layout feature. Then why try to start drama? And then why turn around and say that you can't live without it?

I dont see anywhere i said i couldnt live with out it. And i said ti drew me back cause its a nice feature to have. As Ive said ive already moved on got three of my own UI's fo tthree different classes wwith a auto lay out feature for those classes.

TYea I did get mad about you deleting my posts. Cause I didnt see any flaming or anything of tthe sort in the posts even after sending copies to my friend who also said there wasnt any flaming involved.

But like I also said, when people send money they are usually thinking that its going towards the project. Ive already talked to a few who thought that was what the money was going to. Was the project. But Yea i donmt disagree or agree with eveything you have said. I agree that i did get out of hand. But when i have said something and its deleted due to "flaming" or that its saying that people need to grow up and open their mind some. Then yea it does make the admins look bad. How would you feel if I had a forum you came in with a complaint and i deleted it cause i wasnt feeling in the mood about it. Thats the way i precived it.

Cause yes I did call mazzle acting a bit childish. Yes I did call the admin (mainly you) acting childish for deleting a post that had no flaming to itt. But had said simply if they arnt going to show any progress other than what the community has put forth. Then how am i wrong in that the author or the fan updater needs to pass the torch? Instead of keeping it and saying "its on the forum do it yourself" (thats implied none have actually said that from what i know) But its like ive said before. Ther arnt that many people who know how to open a .lua and fix it. I tested that with two people who i sent everyhing the forum said and the link to the forum... 15 mins of trtying from one and she gave up. The other had her husband do it for her and he said it was troublesome as well. That if its there on the forum with it working. Then why wasnt it already put into a UI add on. that was what he had asked. anyways as i said im repeating myself and this discussion needs to end.

Rigorous · 05-14-08, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Xerik

Then how am i wrong in that the author or the fan updater needs to pass the torch?

this is what i don't get. i see it again and again and not just about Mazzle.

why does someone "need" to do this? Mazzle (or any mod author who provides their work free of charge on the internet) doesn't owe you or "the community" a thing.

the notion that mods will break and will either be fixed or they won't and that one should just be thankful that they existed in the first place and that they do get fixed should be at the very core of one's understanding before they ever click the "Download" button. i don't care if the author asks for a donation or if you sent them an extremely generous one...it doesn't change the facts.

everyone just plain needs to accept that Mazzle is broken. deal with it and/or move on.