12-12-07, 06:30 PM | #41 | ||
Let's say I've got nothing to do, realms are down for maintenance and I have free time from work. What does a WOW player frequently do? 1) Browse their guild forums, 2) Browse the official forums, 3) Check sites such as this for new releases, and overall interesting stuff (these forums for instance). Let's say that during the course of skimming over wow sites, I stumble upon an addon Ive never heard of before. It offers a function or feature I'd be interested in trying or at least experimenting with (I'm very stubborn when it comes to getting dependent on more addons). Anyway, on other sites, I am told up front the mod is not current and "may or may not work" with the current game version. On this site, that information isn't present. It can be argued that absent of this disclaimer, the mod looks "current", or at least as something that will run if outdated addons are checked. I download the mod, install the mod, all looks fine. I launch my game, log in to wow, and BAM..something's broken. The mod "might have" been one to break my entire interface, etc. This is a problem. To me, the addon looked current, or at least functional. Angry, I delete the addon, and check to see if my existing interface is still "fine". Understanding I dont need my hands held, I sit there wishing there was a bit more notice that something was OLD and really broken (with current game). I apologize for the length of this, but you understand my point. I'd like to point out one other minor issue with the tone used in some of this thread...because one is a veteran at something, and is armed with knowledge and information about something, it does not place them in higher esteem than one without. Case in point - I own a small IT business, we do all kinds of work, mostly with small businesses, and people who have home offices. In any event, we frequently perform simple tasks (security consulting, network maintenance, etc.) for an interesting range of clients. We have lots of legal/medical clients we are responsible for keeping up and running (from hardware, to whatever). When I hear my technicians talking about people being "below them" or "stupid" because they barely know how to log in to their email, I quickly remind these types of technicians that the people they are talking about know how to save lives, do brain surgery, protect people's futures, etc. The point being, because someone hasn't a clue how to install a driver, it does not make them "the lowest common denominator". Does anyone here know how to perform brain surgery? You get my point. I still don't see a downside to a simple tag line. It can save users grief, whether rookies or veterans. I would benefit from it and I've been at this game since the beginning. Being a "noob" does not mean being lower. Let's continue this discussion in proper light. None of us are above/below anyone else. Actually, I'd like to commend the contributors here for not picking up the "you're a noob" syndrome that infects so many of the kids that plays this game. Anyway, I also thought I should point out this thread started because I'm disgusted at the "overall condition" of Titan/Fubar, not really that this site fails to meet any expectations or requirements (in fact I've pointed out the opposite). It was not my intention to rework or change the process this site provides. Since it was brought up though, I'm simply agreeing the tag line might be helpful. That's all. |
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12-12-07, 07:13 PM | #42 |
I have to point out that there is a tagline when viewing a mod, that states whether the addon works with the current (2.3 in this case) patch. Perhaps it could be made a bit more obvious, or perhaps colored? You make some really good points, and it's nice to view things from a fresh perspective.
"Newb" or "Newbie" - someone new, and relatively clueless. Be gentle. We were all there once! "nub" - someone who should know better or have learned better, but hasn't or won't. Also known as griefers, idiots, lamers, campers, etc, etc. |
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12-13-07, 01:37 PM | #43 | ||||||||
also, as has also been previously pointed out, the issue that you seem to be experiencing is likely related to Jostle, one of the libraries upon which FuBar is dependent. the problem isn't FuBar itself, yet you continue to point the finger at FuBar and ckk. this is indicative of my statements regarding the inexact science of interface manipulation and the number of variables involved.
i use "lowest common denominator" to refer to the newbies...the people who are uninformed. i do not use it with the intention to signify that newbies are somehow "beneath" anyone. and there is, as Gemini pointed out, a difference between a "noob" and a "newb". "newb" is a temporary state. "noob" is a permanent one. and your use of the term "unwilling" is indicative of a noob (not accusing you of this, simply stating that you used the term). and this is the crux of nearly everything i've said. being unwilling to find solutions for yourself is a far cry from being unable to find them. again, this is what forums and FAQs are for.
i'll say this again and drop it: if one isn't willing to learn about the myriad world of mods (or anything, for that matter) for oneself, then one should not be using them. and if one is indeed unwilling to learn, that does not automatically shift responsibility onto the content providers to protect one from oneself. this has nothing to do with hierarchies or esteem...it has to do with personal responsibility. |
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12-13-07, 02:06 PM | #44 |
I don't know if this has already been posted or mentioned, I really can't read through all the walls of text with repeated stuff to find out if it has though, so here:
I use WAU all the time. Does this mean I update all the mods when it says there's an update? No, I don't. The only time I ever update an addon is if it's giving me errors. Since all of the addons listed in files.wowace.com are considered beta, it's really really ignorant to update each and every addon you have every time there's an update unless you're getting errors for them all. Authors are all the time adding, removing, rewriting, etc stuff for the addons there and they aren't fully tested. Updating every mod everytime you run WAU is just asking for errors and problems. "If it's not broken, don't fix it." |
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12-13-07, 06:00 PM | #45 | |
I think it's ridiculous to spend so much effort in arguing a rather simple point that more information is a good thing. Regarding the tag line mentioned, that's all it's about. Period. Are you honestly that concerned that an extra line of text lowers the bar for anyone involved? Why? Regarding mod dependencies breaking, call me crazy, but if a mod author can't properly utilize the dependency, is it really the fault of the dependency (especially considering the fact they both worked very well together)? Go load up Fubar and LocationFu and see what I mean. While the issue may not be limited solely to Fubar, it is very much created when Fubar is used with LocationFu. I bet you can't guess the author of both mods. While others may continue updates, contributions to the mods, there's only one Paypal email address listed as the "official author" of the mod(s) listed here. To me, that's enough to hold him responsible enough to at least expect a functioning product. Again, I'm open to the fact I don't fully understand his (author's) process, but I would like these two mods to work together (again). |
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12-13-07, 06:08 PM | #46 | |
The only thing ignorant about using WAU to update mods is failing to recognize that sometimes authors go backwards. It is sometimes very difficult to determine when that is going to happen. |
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12-13-07, 06:55 PM | #47 | |
__________________
Karadra Level 80 Human Deathknight Silvermoon/Nerfed Guild |
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12-13-07, 07:30 PM | #48 | |
No one expects you to become a computer tech. No one expects people to learn how to code mods. But they have to be willing to help themselves and learn about what they are doing, and not expect people to help them every step of the way and hold their hands. There is a difference, and please stop twisting words. |
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12-13-07, 07:40 PM | #49 | |
You just said what I've been struggling with while reading this thread. I couldn't put my finger on it exactly. Ah... clarity. |
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12-13-07, 07:42 PM | #50 |
This thread is still open?
I'm getting full on /popcorn. Stop feeding the troll? /drama off |
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12-13-07, 08:20 PM | #51 | ||
People helping themselves is great. To facilitate that process, good tools are really helpful. The more informational these tools become, the easier it is for people to do so. @Erica - thank you for that solution @Sajomatic - that's a mirror you are looking into, not these forums I won't take the bait. I still think this is a constructive discussion. |
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12-13-07, 08:39 PM | #52 | |
There wwas an issue way (way) back in October--that was fixed--with Jostle being accessed inappropriately. But its fixed now. The LibJostle-3.0 library (included with the Wowace FuBar version) was last updated 3 weeks ago. You still running into Jostle issues? Update. The current r55569 (Nov. 20) of FuBar_LocationFu (using the earlier JostleLib) works just fine for nearly everyone with the current r56917 (Dec. 12) of FuBar (using the updated LibJostle-3.0). Obtain those--which include the latest versions of the libraries--from http://files.wowace.com . BTW, FuBar isn't "dead", it was in fact converted to the Rock library system in time for the WoW 2.3 patch. Something the parent poster conveniently overlooks. Advice to the parent poster who seems to be either a clueless troll or just can't seem to accept constructive advice: uninstall all your mods. Then, no more problems . Last edited by Zidomo : 12-13-07 at 08:50 PM. |
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12-13-07, 10:19 PM | #53 | ||||
And you are reading into what Rigorous wrote. Lowest Common Denominator has more than one meaning. And in this context, it is referring to knowledge about a subject, not quality of people. You can reach this conclusion by looking at how the word "learn" is bolded. How it mentions resources, websites, and authors, and users learning about a subject.
I am a teacher. You do not teach to the highest students in the class, you do not teach to the lowest students in the class. You teach to the middle. If the better students need more to keep their interest, you give them more assignments, more responsibility, etc. If the poorer students need more help, you spend a little more time with them or have the more advanced students help them. But you do not plan your lessons around the students who still struggle with reading or with math, etc. Obviously, though, the lower students would still like to learn more, learn faster, pass the class, etc. They may just need a little more help. But, darnit, they're trying. They know where the resources are and they know how to ask a question. But WoW is not school. And websites and authors do not have to cater - should not have to cater - to those who want everything handed to them on a silver platter. There is a difference between those that want to learn and those that don't. You can only give someone so much. I give you now one of my favorite quotes as a teacher, and one I have mentioned many times in various forums and in the game itself.
But what you did was use strong, derogatory language, like "Panel Mod Disgust" and these other tidbits:
Because you've calmed down, started using more neutral language, and have stopped with the self-entitlement rhetoric, this thread has calmed down, and a better discussion has arisen. I would also like to direct you (and everyone, newbs and veterans alike) to this webpage. While directed more towards hacking circles, it speaks volumes and hopes to educate well. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
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12-13-07, 11:55 PM | #54 |
@Republic: As Zidomo pointed out, all of those revisions are working fine. I have used LocationFu for most of the time I have used FuBar (which was when it was last called Boss Panel). I've never experienced the problem you are facing.
@Seerah: Hilarious read and so true. Thanks for that. |
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12-14-07, 12:38 AM | #55 | |
Edit: I tried this again and it seems to work fine... guess I got a little defensive if I came across in a bad way. Thanks again Zidomo and to the OP... let me know if you still have issues with fubar and I'll see if I can help.
__________________
Karadra Level 80 Human Deathknight Silvermoon/Nerfed Guild Last edited by erica647 : 12-14-07 at 12:57 AM. |
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12-14-07, 01:27 AM | #56 | ||
i've tried to be lucid and patient and maintain a tone of intelligent discussion. i'm done. is there an ignore function on these forums? Last edited by Rigorous : 12-14-07 at 02:54 PM. Reason: i've got the flu and i'm tired |
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12-14-07, 03:41 AM | #57 | |
Using WAU, I downloaded and installed the following... Fubar r56917 | gnarfoz | 2007-12-12 22:58:47 -0500 (Wed, 12 Dec 2007) | 1 line LocationFu r55569 | arrowmaster | 2007-11-20 19:16:13 -0500 (Tue, 20 Nov 2007) | 1 line Logging in to the game, I am faced with the default Blizzard minimap tucked underneath the TOP bar in Fubar. Not sure what to say here, other than it's not working for me. Last edited by Republic : 12-14-07 at 04:24 AM. |
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12-14-07, 03:47 AM | #58 | |
The irony of this situation is tremendous. I am sorry you took this route. I still consider this discussion to be worthwhile. |
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12-14-07, 03:49 AM | #59 | |
Thanks Last edited by Republic : 12-14-07 at 04:25 AM. |
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12-14-07, 04:48 AM | #60 | |
Ok no one else has said this so I will...
Not trying to be a snot here or anything but this whole thread seems to be because you got erked over a mod you use not being fixed and/or not being able to find the updates in the place you wanted the updates to be. So perhaps there's an issue with jostle, perhaps there isn't. Perhaps it's just some weird bug that no one can track down? Perhaps it's user error, perhaps not. Since there doesn't seem to be any fix for it that works for you. Get a minimap mod to move the freaking minimap where you want it and be done with it. I know, that's not the point... you shouldn't have to install a mod to bypass a bug in another mod. Well, that's kind of how it goes sometimes. There's always little things going wrong with one mod or another. I run truckloads of mods, truckloads and I get little conflicts from time to time. Currently though when I log in to WoW my bugsack has 0/0 errors. To me that's a testament to the authors themselves. Oh and yes, 98% of my mods are Ace and one of them is fubar. /2cents off |
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WoWInterface » AddOns, Compilations, Macros » AddOn Search/Requests » Panel Mod Disgust |
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