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05-04-09, 09:35 AM   #1141
Rhaethe
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Oh dear lord.

I remember my first linux workstation. RH 5.2
I remember my first unix workstation. FreeBSD 4.1

I remember working for 9 years as a System Admin for around 2500 systems whose OS ranged from Tru64, Solaris 2.5 to 9, 3 different distribs of Linux with varying releases, etc.

I remember having to keep said servers consistently patched.

I don't want to sound elitist. I don't.

But if someone finds it inordinately painful and aggravating to keep 30 WoW Addons updated in good working order ..... Then they simply shouldn't be running linux as their everyday workstation machine if they want to keep their sanity.

It has, however, been a few years since my SysAdmin days. Is kernel and lib patching for *nix systems now down to One Button Updating now, too?

If so, ignore what I just said **sigh**
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05-04-09, 10:20 AM   #1142
Vyper
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In most distros now, kernel/lib patching is as easy as clicking the little button in the update manager ;-). Things have come a long way from the old days.

Even swapping out and compiling your own kernel from source is fairly simple now.

*Returns to topic*
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05-04-09, 10:45 AM   #1143
Elesarr
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Oh my protolif

I came here asking about something I didn't understand: Why there was tension when it "appeared" that WM was trying to work with the addon community.

Had you truly read at the very least my OP and beyond all the stuff you ranted about was answered for the most part.

I run over 100 addons as I am a guild master and have various level 80 toons with different UI requirements. In point of fact, I was updating addons manually for all of my capped L60 toons (8 of them) pre-BC. And never had a problem and never really lost much game time.

It is people like you who have never actually had to do anything with the game that have just had stuff handed to them that make the new user base of WoW shame all us who have been playing this game since Beta.

Your hateful post in an attempt to "shame" this addon community into doing something that would cause them not to exist anymore has done nothing but put a poor light on yourself and the multitude of others that think your way.

Perhaps you would feel better if Blizzard decided to start selling addons to players and no longer allowed free addon development - would you then scream and cry that you hate Blizzard cause addons should be free?

All your post does is clarify that you are one of the people of this generation who has entitlement issues and wants everything now no matter what the cost to anyone else so long as you get what you want - there is a flaw in your logic however - if wowi and curse were shut down due to server strain and costs there would be no hosting of addons here or there to be had, should the authors move to other servers the same would happen server overload and costs....do you see where I am going? The sum of this equation then becomes: players would have to write their own addons, and if they couldn't - oh well so sad too bad. You can't even manage to update your addons manually I highly doubt you would be able to write your own addons.

WM is the problem in the way they try to get addon information. They will not work with any in the addon community - I highly suggest that you do not believe the propaganda they are spouting.

My apologies to the community for going on and probably feeding a troll, however I felt the need to say this - I was very shocked at what I read.
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05-04-09, 11:16 AM   #1144
Nuchaleft
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Strangely enough, it isn't really that hard to write your own updater, in Visual Basic, but then I have a diploma in Software Development, so that kinda helps

Only the block affects my current implementation, but I have found a workaround. It only downloads my own addons and only if for some reason it can't find them on my server.
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Last edited by Nuchaleft : 05-04-09 at 11:18 AM.
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05-04-09, 11:36 AM   #1145
Vyper
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I think this applies...

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05-04-09, 11:46 AM   #1146
LittleWhiteDove
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Originally Posted by Elesarr View Post
........................................

My apologies to the community for going on and probably feeding a troll, however I felt the need to say this - I was very shocked at what I read.
I personally am glad to see that someone new, who came to the addon community seeking answers, has the intestinal fortitude to stand up for the community now that they have had the details explained to them.
Three cheers for you

Last edited by Cairenn : 05-04-09 at 08:32 PM. Reason: removed inflammatory comment - Cair
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05-04-09, 12:09 PM   #1147
Bouvi
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I have seen the light!

I support WM because they violated addon authors rights... wait.

I support WM because they ignored addon authors request to remove their addons... wait.

I support WM because they leeched bandwidth from other sites... Give me a sec I will get this.

I support WM because they ignored the fact that if they shut down these sites due to bandwidth use there would be nowhere to get the addons... dangit

I support WM because I am lazy and want one button to rule them all... Well that is the only valid thing I could come up with.

I think I would rather stay in the dark!

When people can see past their own petty selfish needs the world will be a better place. Most seem to not care about anything but the last one. They cannot see past their own needs that the loss of WoWi would affect more than the loss of WM. WoWi is a community, WM is a tool (in more ways than one)

When I first found WoWi there were no fancy downloaders. So what if when an addon breaks I have to go get it? Do I have to update daily? NO, weekly? NO. I update when something breaks.

I am Bouvi and I approve this message.
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05-04-09, 12:43 PM   #1148
Zyonin
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Incoming Word Wall.

Elesarr and other former WM users/supporters who came to this forum to air their views (and did so in an intelligent way), then read the various posts and realized just what WM was doing (thus "See the Light") to the AddOn communities, then turn around and defend the WoWI community against the trolls earn my respect. We need more of you. Those who wish to be educated should be welcomed here. I hope y'all stick around.

The rest of the uninformed (and whom don't want to be informed) with their sense of entitlement are not worth wasting a perfectly good 2x4. For them its just "me, me, Me, ME!"

My AddOn folder has never been small, currently I run with about 50 AddOns (not including subfolders/LoD configs/etc). I manually updated. I did this prior to the advent of updaters. I have had to crawl SVN repos to find the stuff I wanted. Yet I still manage to get my raiding in, do my guild Officer duties, gank Hordies (in the old Honor system, at one point I was in the top 10% of my server, with a pre awesome Druid no less!) and have time to goof off. I do AddOn support for my guild, build my own custom UIs and have lately started modifying my AddOns with custom code. I have even started a couple of new AddOn projects. And yet, I still manually update. I have tested the Curse Client, it works nicely, however I prefer the control of a manual update. Plus I like having backups of my mods around in case the updates breaks something (something that has happened more than once). Like Honem, I don't have update very many AddOns.

The days of needing to update everyday are gone. The only reason why to update everyday is when Patch 2.4 hit, the new combat log changes went in, and thus Threat (the lib) had to be completely be rewritten. Thus Thread 2.0 was constantly in flux. However those days as I have just said, are long gone. As others have pointed out, the majority of AddOn updates are things like developer tag changes (something end-user have no need to deal with) or localization changes (does an English speaker need to care that a German localization was updated?). Major code changes are rare these days.

If you really want to keep tabs on whether or not a mod is updated, then try Fin's AddOn site's RSS feed. Drop it into your Live Bookmarks or your favorite news reader and you will have updates from Curse (including CurseForge and WoWAce), WoWInterface and WoWUI.Incgamers. Then a couple of clicks later, you can have your updated mod and still support the sites you download from. Try it.
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Last edited by Zyonin : 05-04-09 at 12:49 PM.
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05-04-09, 12:43 PM   #1149
Cairenn
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Originally Posted by Vyper View Post
I think this applies...

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Thank you for posting it! <3
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05-04-09, 01:24 PM   #1150
Tekkub
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Originally Posted by protolif View Post
Your anti-WowMatrix propaganda is something akin to the MPAA & RIAA's cries about the big bad internet pirates.
There is a very big difference, and if you don't see that you don't understand the situation. Authors aren't concerned about users stealing our pennies.

Originally Posted by protolif View Post
As to developers rights, you only care because it serves your interests. Commercial addon development is a thing of the past. If you want to make money off World of Warcraft, go work for Blizzard. I believe in Open Source, and will no longer be using any addon that isn't distributed with one of the following liceneses: GPL. LGPL, BSD, MIT, Apache, Academic, Creative Commons, or Public Domain.
Who said commercial? I believe code should be free, I *want* people to take my code and run with it... they don't even have to give me credit. But I will never attach a license to my code because I believe that. You know your little RIAA argument? That whole situation has proven to me how broken the copyright system is, and I will not support that system by attaching any sort of license to my works. If you are too close-minded to anything but OSI-compatibly licensed addons... well that's a pretty sad irony there.

Originally Posted by Nuchaleft View Post
Strangely enough, it isn't really that hard to write your own updater, in Visual Basic
I LOL'd
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05-04-09, 01:33 PM   #1151
Spectro
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Originally Posted by florinpatan View Post
Has any of you guys tried and run a antivirus like Kaspersky or Norton while runing WoWMatrix?

If so can you tell me what the heck is going on with all those registry changes and calls to operating system files?

All of these can be stopped and WoWMatrix continues to run well but the thing is that any add-on updater program that makes unwanted calls to operating system files and registry does more that just getting a file of a website and unziping it to the right folder.

Don't tell me that it's fine by you because you run Linux or Mac and you don't care because you might have no idea on what WoWMatrix does to your system, on Windows at least I see it trying and changing registry entries about ads, blocked sites etc. and getting stopped by my antivirus.

I've just tried WoWMatrix once, and when I've saw what it does I've gone to the old method of downloading add-ons from WoWI and Curse by myself.

I'm currently waiting for WoWI updater as Curse doesn't have all the add-ons that I have installed.
This was in the Carbonite/Wowmatrix thread. I'd like to know if anyone knows what exactly WM does with operating system files and the registry?
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05-04-09, 01:36 PM   #1152
Tekkub
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Originally Posted by Spectro View Post
This was in the Carbonite/Wowmatrix thread. I'd like to know if anyone knows what exactly WM does with operating system files and the registry?
My guess (I haven't dug into WM's innards beyond where they get addons)... they need the registry to find where WoW is installed, and they may be using windows' built in unzipping instead of packaging their own.
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05-04-09, 03:42 PM   #1153
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I had asked Shirik earlier about that, and this is what he said to me:

(11:58:07 AM) Shirik: based off what I could tell, it manipulates TCP settings to adjust performance of WoW, though I don't agree with the changes it makes
(12:17:09 PM) Seerah|away: what changes does it make?
(12:43:56 PM) Shirik: Seerah: It has to do with adjusting TCP parameters
(12:44:05 PM) Shirik: some things WoW does on its own anyway
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05-04-09, 04:38 PM   #1154
Elesarr
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ty littlewhitedove and lykofos for the kind words

You have all proven to me you are quite worthy of defending simply in the way you treated me kindly and with respect even after I asked a question that has been asked many times - it goes to show that Truth and Light are on your side.

addon communities > any updater



Edit: oh yeah I forgot to mention that I agree Vyper's post was perfect!
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05-04-09, 05:42 PM   #1155
Tristanian
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Originally Posted by Seerah View Post
I had asked Shirik earlier about that, and this is what he said to me:

(11:58:07 AM) Shirik: based off what I could tell, it manipulates TCP settings to adjust performance of WoW, though I don't agree with the changes it makes
(12:17:09 PM) Seerah|away: what changes does it make?
(12:43:56 PM) Shirik: Seerah: It has to do with adjusting TCP parameters
(12:44:05 PM) Shirik: some things WoW does on its own anyway
I'm guessing disabling the Nagle algorithm but I could be wrong.
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05-04-09, 05:58 PM   #1156
Tekkub
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Originally Posted by Tristanian View Post
I'm guessing disabling the Nagle algorithm but I could be wrong.
Which WoW started doing some time back if I remember right... but yea, I would certainly trust WM to know more about networking than WoW's programmers.

*eyeroll*

I hate when people lose sight of the scope of their software, what they should and should not be doing, and *especially* when they don't tell the user that they're doing it, even if they don't provide options to disable it.
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05-04-09, 06:13 PM   #1157
Tristanian
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Yup that's true. There is no significant benefit anymore by doing this via the registry, at least not on WoW. In certain cases it may even be bad, as you can be flooded by small TCP/IP packets.
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05-04-09, 07:11 PM   #1158
Silh
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Thinking more about problems and symptoms brought me to this line of thought, which goes along with the whole feeling of entitlement that some people have:

People have gotten used to things being conveniently free on the internet, and if some particularly nice service or whatever is offered, people flock to it and it becomes popular. If said offerer cannot afford the costs of offering said service due to being overloaded... that site eventually disappears.

I've seen this pattern happen many a time in the past, less so these days with the increase in advertising/commercial support. Thinking back though about, I dunno, 10-15 years ago or so when I was in University and first got onto the internet... many a site out there was done by a single person, in their spare time; often hosted at a University server. I guess it wasn't too bad the first few years when I first got online (think: gopher, lynx ... oooh, Mosaic, shiny!), but once more people started getting online, if one of those sites ever got really popular and flooded... *poof!*

Skip forward a decade... everyone's online now. There's a lot more options for hosting; costs have come down. Larger corporations pay for/host their own sites since it serves their business. The in-their-spare-time, 'it's a hobby' guys are still out there though! (And if I may be so bold as to assume, the majority of WoW addons are created by such people). Yet, in the end... somebody has to pay for the bandwidth.

But... that was the culture that the Internet was created with, and that's what people expect. That things are 'free'...

I have no problems with people making a buck off their work, or if they decide not to charge anything for whatever reasons they might have. (I myself write code for the fun of it, and give it out since I figure some other people might have some fun using it). But quite frankly, NOTHING in this world is free. Even if someone gives out their addon for free, they spent a fair bit of time writing and debugging their addon while their character sat in UBRS so they wouldn't get random tells to come heal instances... well, you know what I mean. Do authors 'deserve' to be compensated? ... well, that's up to them if they want to try and get some remuneration, whether there is a market, whether people are willing to pay... that's what capitalism is all about.

But as to those who 'give it away' ... whether it be an addon author, or addon site, or whatever is out there on the Internet. If it gets abused, gets thrown at it more than it can handle.... it will go away.

Moral of the story: don't bite the hand that feeds you

I think I"m rambling too much...

(Edit: Grammar/sentence structure)

Last edited by Silh : 05-05-09 at 07:42 AM.
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05-04-09, 10:32 PM   #1159
Cairenn
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Originally Posted by us2006027321 View Post
I don't know that it was WM's intention to misrepresent themselves to me in the e-mails I have been exchanging with them, but I have a few more questions I get to go ask them before I produce my blog. Btw, yes, I have been communicating with them. They seem fairly happy to communicate with someone who wants to hear what they have to say and is willing to offer the community their perspective. I'm not going to give away the whole game before I make my post, but I'm sure it will make a very interesting read for all parties.
Originally Posted by us2006027321 View Post
Originally Posted by honem View Post
And mr Us some funny string of numbers man ...We still haven't heard wowmatrix's response to you .....
Wait for the steak to marinade, my friend. I'm still waiting on a reply to my most recent string of questions. I dressed Cairenn's questions up a bit, but you really can't dress up those questions so much that they aren't obvious, and I'm not so sure I'm going to get a response. I was hoping to get a response by today so I could put up my brilliant blog post, but I may have to push out my self-imposed deadline to Monday. >.> Sorry! /hug


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05-04-09, 10:34 PM   #1160
Tekkub
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That was more than a page ago, stop trying to bring up old crap.
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WoWInterface » Site Forums » News » WoWInterface and Curse working together to help protect authors and other site-users

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