WoW UI AddOn Development Policy discussion thread

[Slakah]

shdwphnx, your analogies fall flat on their face when you remember that Blizzard didn't have to implement the addon system. Also by your logic, I should be allowed run a Botting program as it's "my house", or to use your analogy Blizzard is the government, they've introduced a new law which means Cannabis is illegal, but by again using your logic I should be allowed Cannabis as long as it's in my house.

[Sichae]

Originally Posted by shdwphnx This is not really a good comparison. The resources used by most add-ons actually come from your computer, not from Blizzard. A better analogy would be to say that it's Blizzard's streets you drive your car on, and that they are trying to dictate what you can have inside your car. Certain restrictions make sense such as no overly loud horns (no add-ons that spam other players). They have no business telling me AM radios are fine, but I cannot have FM. True, Blizzard definitely has the right to disable add-on functionality. Again, it is not really their house though. Going back to my street analogy, Blizzard has the right to widen or narrow the roads, add stop lights, etcetera. However, that is not what they are doing with this policy. I personally feel this is more like them telling me that blue cars are forbidden, and only green ones are allowed. Shdwphnx

Nothing wrong with green cars. :P Didn't really mean resources, as in hardware, but resources as in using their addon functionality to allow addons to exist. They could remove addon installation altogether if they wanted to (which seems to be the case as we are seeing more and more things added into the game that were once only achieved by addons eg. Theat in tooltips, SCT, quest info in tooltips, gear managers). Streamlining the policy to make it more appealing to their shareholders and new merged company (in a fiscal sense), putting in place potential roadblocks for scammers, and making legal maneuvers shouldn't really be receiving this much negativity and hullaballoo. It happens everyday.

[Kimmik]

Originally Posted by Slakah shdwphnx, your analogies fall flat on their face when you remember that Blizzard didn't have to implement the addon system. Also by your logic, I should be allowed run a Botting program as it's "my house", or to use your analogy Blizzard is the government, they've introduced a new law which means Cannabis is illegal, but by again using your logic I should be allowed Cannabis as long as it's in my house.

Except in the EULA and TOS that you have to Click agree to it says no automated play. The coding that the authors do are functions, that blizzard can allow or not allow. I see where bots and gold sellers both violate the agreement we all had to sign to play. But why is it sooooo evil if someone who spends hours making a mod that enhances the game while not effecting the game, or violating any of the rules , charges or asks for donations.

now I am against spamming adds... but Nui's little one time pop up... it is fine.. Blizzard... well I cant say what I want to cause ... the nice lady with the red name said we have to be nice.

[Slakah]

But why is it sooooo evil if someone who spends hours making a mod that enhances the game while not effecting the game

Why do you presume that I think asking for donations is evil? (Infact Blizzard has said that addons are allowed to ask for donations, just not in their game) I just don't understand why people are getting so up in arms about Blizzards right to block addons which don't follow their new rules. There could be many reasons why this policy has been created (including protecting themselves from rabid users complaining "I bought this mod", but they've run away with my money) , and I for one will be waiting for Blizzards response before jumping to any conclusions.

or violating any of the rules

So what happens if these rules are added to EULA/TOS.


Also so everyone can try and get their facts straight I would read http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...64748310&sid=1.


As a final point, in my opinion Blizzard is clearly NOT claiming ownership of your addons, and I doubt they would be able to claim so anyway. All they are saying is they reserve the right to block your addon from working in their game. This does NOT mean they own your addon, your IP are NOT being trampled on.

[Kimmik]

Originally Posted by Slakah Why do you presume that I think asking for donations is evil? (Infact Blizzard has said that addons are allowed to ask for donations, just not in their game) I just don't understand why people are getting so up in arms about Blizzards right to block addons which don't follow their new rules. There could be many reasons why this policy has been created, and I for one will be waiting for Blizzards responce before jumping to any conclusions. So what happens if these rules are added to EULA/TOS. Also so everyone can try and get their facts straight I would read http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...64748310&sid=1.

Wasn't saying you thought it was evil... sorry if it came out that way. just got done with the thread over in the official forums... I have no problem with blizz blocking addons it is their game.. and if it is added to the eula/tos then it will really blow. I can also see why they dont want people charging. I see both sides and neither side can come out looking good. If blizzard says the new rules stays, and adds it to the Tos/eula they are being the bad guy. If they change it then the Mods are being greedy.

I just hate seeing some of my favorite mod writers so upset. They put a lot of work into what they do and seldom do they really get the thanks they deserve. *sighs* *GROUP HUG* *huggles everyone*

[spiel2001]

Originally Posted by Kimmik the nice lady with the red name said we have to be nice.

Who said she was nice?

~evil grin~

[Kimmik]

Originally Posted by spiel2001 Who said she was nice? ~evil grin~

*giggles* I am new and I like the site and I would like to be here for a bit.

[MadCow]

Originally Posted by spiel2001 Who said she was nice? ~evil grin~

Cairenn is one of the nicest moderators Ive ever seen and she's been doing it for decades and decades!
and she truly does have one of the largest, coolest smiley collections known to internetdom


As for all this, dont be surprised if these guidelines are added to the eula/tos with 3.1.0

[Jeniwyn]

I am not an addon writer. I have never paid for any addon. Thus I'm not biased against this policy.

I cannot understand that so many people side with Blizzard on this issue, it's compleately beyond me.

My problems with the different points are.

Point #1: Firstly, Blizzard trying to control distribution of other peoples work is absolutely morally wrong and probably also legally wrong. The fact that they will probably get away with it because noone will afford the risk to test it doesn't exactly diminish the morally wrong part of the issue. They are threatening not only to set up anti-measures but to take legal action. This is really something.

Secondly. As for those of you complaining that you do not want to pay for addons, thats fine I don't want to either, however I will gladly benefit from others doing it. Proffessionally supported addons drives the technology forward. This is a good thing.

Point #2: If there is a security concern behind this I have no beef with it, if its only an anti-copyright move I consider it at least morally wrong.

Point #4: Since the advertiser would see this as buying advertising space in WoW rather than in an addon this rule is 100% motivated. In fact even without it beeing written down Blizzard would probably win if they sued Carbonite today. Carbonite did NOT think this one through. This is a no-brainer.

Point #5: While the same objection as in #4 applies in a limited sence I feel that this point causes unneeded harm to the community with no real upside for anyone involved. Small non-intrusive reminders that we might want to donate should be between the users and the providers of the third party programmers, while Blizzard has a right to prohibit this I belive it is a bad move that will hurt developers, users and in the end themselves.

Point #3, #6, #7, #8: No objections at all and no need to go into detail about any of them.

[Kimmik]

Originally Posted by spiel2001 Who said she was nice? ~evil grin~

Btw you cantankerous ui writer as long as you keep updating NUI I promise ever 2 weeks to donate 10 dollars... i know it is not much but like I said... I have had some very bad rl stuff happen so money is rather thin... but I like your ui.... it is neat and clean..... be better in a nice steel blue though lol

And as for your sig.... I have ADOS..... Attention Deficit Ooooooo Shiny =P

[spiel2001]

Originally Posted by Kimmik ADOS..... Attention Deficit Ooooooo Shiny =P

~roflmao~

And thank you for the kind word

(looks for something to kick)

[orionthehunter]

I emailed Blizzard in regards to the policy. Here is what I sent:

The new UI policy is wrong and a bad idea. Blizzard provides a UI that I have not used by default in nearly 4 years. The UI as Blizzard has made it, is certainly less than ideal. I use nUI and Carbonite. The authors of those mods choose to exchange their time and effort and provide premium versions of their addons. I am willing to pay for that effort. Leave this issue up to addon authors, their users and the free market. It will take care of itself.

[mrdummy]

Why pay for a addon if you can get it free elsewhere with almost same functions? And people support each other in free addons, point the problems and updates are sometimes faster.
Protecting code against another people, okay, but that is not really open-source if you hide all codes. People don't like close-source much.
And Blizzard cannot verify if they use illegal codes inside.
Blizzard has own rules. It's her game, not your game.
Donation works automatic: happy people want give money for it.
LUA code is open-source. Thus there is no need for paid addons.

I always hate ads and popup messages ingame.

[Jeniwyn]

Originally Posted by mrdummy Why pay for a addon if you can get it free elsewhere with almost same functions?

Why make it so that others do not have a choise to use that addon for whatever reason? We might like the addon that costs money because it offers better support, slightly better features etc. etc. Just because you are happy to use the free alternative should everyone be forced to?

And people support each other in free addons, point the problems and updates are sometimes faster.

Again, why make that the only alternative?

Protecting code against another people, okay, but that is not really open-source if you hide all codes. People don't like close-source much.

I'm perfectly happy about both, I do not see why your not wanting to use these addons should stop me from beeing able to.

And Blizzard cannot verify if they use illegal codes inside.

This is a valid concern, but this restriction hasn't really been debated much. Blizzard might have good reasons for this and they might not. This is a minor point regardless.

Blizzard has own rules. It's her game, not your game.

Absolutely, however we are customers of Blizzard and thus our opinions matter to them. Expressing our dislike for this policy is 100% valid.

Donation works automatic: happy people want give money for it. LUA code is open-source. Thus there is no need for paid addons.

Ok, this is typical BitTorrent generation thinking.

Just because something CAN be copied easily does not mean that it is perfectly ok to do so.

The creators have every right to retain their copyright and if you do then copy it without paying them you are violating their copyright.

For example the "pro" version on nUI does not have any encryption, still you see players donating rather than violating Scotts copyright and distributing it free.

As for donations happening regardless of in-game reminders, have you even read most of this thread? Both donators and addon writers have clearly pointed out that in-game reminders have a huge impact.

I always hate ads and popup messages ingame.

As do I. And ads in addons is almost certainly something that Blizzard can sue for unless they have a specific policy that allows it.

[avid]

All I can really say is, I hope the authors of Carbonite can find a way around this. Their mod is hands down one of the greatest I've ever used. I have no problem what-so-ever in paying for it.

You know what would be nice though? It'd be nice if there was an Addon Store, kind of like the iPhone App store or something, where you can pay a one time, small fee for the addon of your choice. Mod authors could then specify whether they want their addon to be free or not, but you'd probably end up seeing a lot of 99¢ mods. Blizzard could then take their cut, and perhaps even use some sort of encryption and have it bound to your account(s), unless it is a free version.

Sure, this would probably upset the users, but it would also allow for developers to actually spend more time with their addon. Honestly, if we could have more addons like Carbonite (that is, a full-featured modification with great performance), there would be absolutely no complaints from my end. May also encourage authors to keep their stuff updated.

I know I know... I must be dreaming, right?

[Xruptor]

Originally Posted by avid All I can really say is, I hope the authors of Carbonite can find a way around this. Their mod is hands down one of the greatest I've ever used. I have no problem what-so-ever in paying for it.

Of course there is a way around it! Make the code unencrypted and free to the public. Viola! Problem solved.
(I am of course being sarcastic.)

[seebs]

My thought: I'd like to see some clarification on things like information in an About Box on where to get the addon. I would think that an About box saying:

CookieUI is funded completely by donations. If you are interested in donating or supporting this project, visit our web site at cookieui.example.com.

... would not violate the rule. It doesn't solicit donations. "Solicit" is a relatively narrow term.

I am all for the ban on obfuscated code, myself. I hate it and don't think it should be getting used.

Apart from that... I have no complaints. I don't see any threat here to my legal rights to my code, such as they are.

[Sythalin]

I responded to other's posts on the topic, but to be fair I suppose I should share my thoughts on the new guidelines for equal debate.


1) Add-ons must be free of charge.
Always been against paying for addons. Donations is one thing, and if the mod is worth it I'll toss a few bucks for it, but I'm not fond of being required to pay for it.

2) Add-on code must be completely visible.
Agree, unless the code contains NO reference to the API. If it's all purely open lua/xml, then it should be the author's right to protect it. But if there's even one reference/usage of Blizz's API, then the code should be visible.
On a more personal note, when I started modding I knew squat about lua. I learned everything by looking at other people's codes and experimenting with it. Open code allows others to learn from examples and spark new ideas. I have a major project planned due out soon that wouldn't have been possible if I couldn't reference other mod codes.

3) Add-ons must not negatively impact World of Warcraft realms or other players.
Unlike others, I don't read this as "You cannot have an uber database that causes a small freeze while loading". I read this as "You cannot have a mod that purposely does 1,252,324 calls when OnUpdate fires."

4) Add-ons may not include advertisements.
Fully agree. I know I don't like gold sellers/power leveler spam in game. If anyone actually does, they're the first I've heard of.

5) Add-ons may not solicit donations.
Yes and no. I have no issues with a small button/text placed somewhere in credits/info sections of the mod. I do, however, have a problem with 20+ mods all spamming me at login to "donate". I'm honestly shocked that no one has done a login/reload popup....

6) Add-ons must not contain offensive or objectionable material.
I agree with this to a point. If I want to have some nekkid chick on my interface too stare at, I should have that choice as long as I write it up myself. Unless SS'd, no one will see it but me. Distributing said nekkid chick addon to the public, however, is a big no-no.

7) Add-ons must abide by World of Warcraft ToU and EULA.
You agreed to it. Deal with it. Don't like it, the door is that way (point in some random direction).

8) Blizzard Entertainment has the right to disable add-on functionality as it sees fit.
It's their game. They don't even have to let you log in if they don't want to. Hell, they can block an entire COUNTRY from logging in at a whim. Again, it's their game and they get to dictate what's allowed. Suck it up or move on. There are plenty of other MMOs (and decent ones at that) out there that could use your business.

So there's my stand. Take it as you will.

[spiel2001]

Originally Posted by ChaosInc 1) Add-ons must be free of charge. Always been against paying for addons. Donations is one thing, and if the mod is worth it I'll toss a few bucks for it, but I'm not fond of being required to pay for it.

I would agree with everything you wrote except this... you aren't REQUIRED to pay for it. It's your choice. You aren't REQUIRED to pay for a Big Mac, but if you want to eat one, you'll have to pay for it or risk going to jail for stealing it. Again, your choice.

[Xruptor]

Originally Posted by spiel2001 I would agree with everything you wrote except this... you aren't REQUIRED to pay for it. It's your choice. You aren't REQUIRED to pay for a Big Mac, but if you want to eat one, you'll have to pay for it or risk going to jail for stealing it. Again, your choice.

The problem with this analogy is that McDonalds isn't getting a monthly subscription cost. If that was the case then I'm sure you wouldn't have to pay extra for the BigMac (unless of course you ordered a 50 foot Big Mac )

I take it people just don't want to pay for an addon that uses something they are already paying for. Yeah it's an added benefit that folks can use addons with the client, but they don't see a reason for having to pay for an addon. Well that's what I get anyway from what I've been reading from folks responses.

Again I'm somewhat of a neutral party in this since my mods aren't affected by these policies. However it is interesting to see several sides of the argument.

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Oh and spiel2001 keep up with the analogies! There spiffy and some of them have made me chuckle. Keep up for the good work with your mod and stay positive Kudos to you