why would an installer need access to my computer? - Page 3

aceman67 · 09-30-09, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by zero-kill

He sounds like the kind of person to call his ISP and whine about the speed of his internet when he's using a wireless g router, in the basement, which is 3 floors under the router, on a slow computer, with 256K ram, running Mac OS 8.4. (or Windows 98).

Speaking as someone who's done Internet high speed tech support for Comcast, I can tell you that Comcast would just tell him to A) Get on a wired computer thats directly hooked up to the modem (Unless its a comcast supplied router), B) Upgrade their OS C) Call back when you do those tings OR Your SOL.

Also...

"640 K ought to be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates, 1981

Torhal · 09-30-09, 03:24 AM

Offtopic, but had to respond:

* 640K ought to be enough for anybody.
o Often attributed to Gates in 1981. Gates considered the IBM PC's 640kB program memory a significant breakthrough over 8-bit systems that were typically limited to 64kB, but he has denied making this remark.

"I've said some stupid things and some wrong things, but not that. No one involved in computers would ever say that a certain amount of memory is enough for all time … I keep bumping into that silly quotation attributed to me that says 640K of memory is enough. There's never a citation; the quotation just floats like a rumor, repeated again and again."
Gates (19 January 1996), "Career Opportunities in Computing—and More". Bloomberg Business News

"Do you realize the pain the industry went through while the IBM PC was limited to 640K? The machine was going to be 512K at one point, and we kept pushing it up. I never said that statement — I said the opposite of that."
"Gates talks" (20 August 2001) U.S. News & World Report

Gsusnme · 09-30-09, 07:18 AM

This thread is still going? I wanna post too!

tralkar · 09-30-09, 08:19 AM

Why use something to install it? What are we all Dumb that we can do it ourselfs? Just install it yourself. END of subject.

Zyonin · 09-30-09, 08:47 AM

To the OP, just so you know, Mac OS X is not the only OS that will throw that message. Linux (Ubuntu 9.04) does as well. It's nothing to be afraid of. As others have stated, Minion is a bit different from other Java based applications as it uses a multi-platform Java Web Start installer (thus the .jnlp extension). Vuze and JDownloader both use Mac specific installers.

Java Web Start is a multi-platform installer for Java based applications that uses a very small file to download load the application's files. It's not that common at the moment, however I would not be surprised to see it used more in the future for Java based programs that install from the Internet. I have run across it twice so far, for Minion and for an older WoW UI updater called NetherPanel (now dead). NetherPanel was also multi-platform. A similar type of installer is Microsoft's ClickOnce installer for .NET based applications for Windows.

I am very security minded myself when it comes to my PC, thus I am very careful to what I install (even on my current machine which is a Linux box). However Minion CAN BE trusted.

Praesagus · 09-30-09, 12:13 PM

I think the app can be trusted. I, personally, don't like it for many of my own reasons. Others love it. That's great. So choose to use it or not. If this is a "request" then reword your original post as that instead of simply bashing it.

zero-kill · 09-30-09, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by aceman67

Speaking as someone who's done Internet high speed tech support for Comcast, I can tell you that Comcast would just tell him to A) Get on a wired computer thats directly hooked up to the modem (Unless its a comcast supplied router), B) Upgrade their OS C) Call back when you do those tings OR Your SOL.

Also...

I'm speaking as someone that is currently running tech support for a major cable provider, we still tell them to bypass their router-even if they got it from us, simply to show them where the problem is, if they don't want it, that's what HN support is for

Grimsin · 09-30-09, 04:28 PM

I could totally tare into a lot of people and what they are saying here BUT i wont. I will simply say that the minion is perfectly safe, and to think that because a pop up warning for the installer poped up that its not, is ludicrous. Its as stupid as MS office install warning me on a Windows platform.

Petrah · 09-30-09, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Grimsin

I could totally tare into a lot of people and what they are saying here BUT i wont. I will simply say that the minion is perfectly safe, and to think that because a pop up warning for the installer poped up that its not, is ludicrous. Its as stupid as MS office install warning me on a Windows platform.

Don't hold back.. tell us how you really feel!

/hugs

**Seerah** · 09-30-09, 08:27 PM

*ahem*

Don't make me link to the Site rules....

Zyonin · 10-01-09, 10:55 AM

Something just occurred to me while fixing dinner, one of my geek brain flashes:

If Minion was planning anything malicious on an OS X/Linux/other 'nix based system, it would pop up a sudo window (Mac's authentication pane is a version of the 'nix sudo command), asking for your user password allowing for superuser/root access. Without superuser/root access, malware cannot make any changes to a 'nix based system. That is one of the inherent strengths of a 'nix based system (such as OS X).

zero-kill · 10-01-09, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Lykofos

Something just occurred to me while fixing dinner, one of my geek brain flashes:

If Minion was planning anything malicious on an OS X/Linux/other 'nix based system, it would pop up a sudo window (Mac's authentication pane is a version of the 'nix sudo command), asking for your user password allowing for superuser/root access. Without superuser/root access, malware cannot make any changes to a 'nix based system. That is one of the inherent strengths of a 'nix based system (such as OS X).

You're referring to the Unix backbone?

Zyonin · 10-01-09, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by zero-kill

You're referring to the Unix backbone?

Yah, however many OS X commands are 'nix commands that have a pretty graphical front end (aka the Quartz "GUI engine") and new, user friendly names (most people would be like what is sudo?). However for power users, the 'nix commands are just a Terminal window away...

wurmfood · 10-01-09, 12:54 PM

Yup. That's why OS-X will sometimes ask you for admin access. Usually it's because it requires access to files that are considered "sensitive" by the OS. Note that any application install that asks for this, is essentially asking for more access than Minion is notifying you about at install. At least Minion warns you about it.

Bluspacecow · 10-03-09, 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by zero-kill

You're referring to the Unix backbone?

That window you see on OSX doesn't really have that much to do with the Unix backbone.

That's called as part of the Security system built into OS X itself. I don't remember the name of the frame work but I think it's the Secure Services framework.

IIRC You don't even need to invoke it in code. You just access an area your user doesn't have permission to enter and it comes up.

Bluspacecow · 10-03-09, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by Lykofos

Yah, however many OS X commands are 'nix commands that have a pretty graphical front end (aka the Quartz "GUI engine") and new, user friendly names (most people would be like what is sudo?). However for power users, the 'nix commands are just a Terminal window away...

Quartz was written by Apple. They didn't base it on X for the windowing system at all (other then a gee that's a good idea *writes their own version*). I refer to post I found by Mike Paquette that says they do (he's the guy that helped write Quartz :

http://developers.slashdot.org/comme...57&cid=6734612

That authentication box comes up automatically when a user attempts to access ares on the HD they don't have permission to enter (eg when the owner & group for a folder is system:wheel) . It's run out of /System/Library/CoreServices I believe.

Zyonin · 10-03-09, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by Bluspacecow

Quartz was written by Apple. They didn't base it on X for the windowing system at all (other then a gee that's a good idea *writes their own version*). I refer to post I found by Mike Paquette that says they do (he's the guy that helped write Quartz :

http://developers.slashdot.org/comme...57&cid=6734612

That authentication box comes up automatically when a user attempts to access ares on the HD they don't have permission to enter (eg when the owner & group for a folder is system:wheel) . It's run out of /System/Library/CoreServices I believe.

I never said that Quartz was based on X Windows. I said Quartz was being used as a pretty front end for some of the 'nix commands. I know that Quartz is the main GUI engine used for Mac OS X. Apple did a damn good job of hiding the 'nix underpinnings of OS X in a very good GUI. It makes sense for Apple to use Quartz (and its widgets) for interacting with 'nix commands as using any X based windowing GUI would detract from the overall user experience that Apple is pushing for.

Bluspacecow · 10-03-09, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by Lykofos

I never said that Quartz was based on X Windows. I said Quartz was being used as a pretty front end for some of the 'nix commands.

My apologies. I thought you were categorically stating that Quartz uses all unix commands which if you look up Apple developer documents it's not