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02-17-08, 03:12 AM   #21
Kaomie
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Wait am I missing something on this one: is the Lua distributed in the ZIP archive really "compiled" and we have no direct visibility on the actual source?
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02-17-08, 07:10 AM   #22
mulesh
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Originally Posted by Kaomie View Post
Wait am I missing something on this one: is the Lua distributed in the ZIP archive really "compiled" and we have no direct visibility on the actual source?
Yes, that is correct. I honestly have no idea how the WoW client "reads" this blather or what it actually "does". Very questionable, if you ask me.

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Last edited by mulesh : 02-17-08 at 07:13 AM.
 
02-17-08, 08:31 AM   #23
rberry88
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Originally Posted by mulesh View Post
Yes, that is correct. I honestly have no idea how the WoW client "reads" this blather or what it actually "does". Very questionable, if you ask me.

It appears that everytime you kill a gnome it secretly sends 2 copper to the donation of Little People of America. I think I'll join in, can't hurt, I love playing with the little people.

Seriously, if you do not like it then don't download it. How do we tell if a mod is popular or worth our time??? By the number of downloads and reviews/comments on it. I think some people are just arguing over this mod due to its newness (word?) and the fact they don't want to pay for something they actually do want but don't want to admit it publicly.

Just my 2 cents.
 
02-17-08, 08:40 AM   #24
Kaomie
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Originally Posted by mulesh View Post
Yes, that is correct. I honestly have no idea how the WoW client "reads" this blather or what it actually "does". Very questionable, if you ask me.
Lua is semi-interpreted, which means textual code is actually compiled into bytecode on the fly before it is run within the Lua virtual machine. The ability to run pre-compiled Lua is part of the standard Lua runtime and I guess was included into WoW Lua engine. Apart from the small performance increase by direct interpretation of the bytecode (see it like a Just-In-Time type of virtual machine) like someone said this is mostly code obfuscation. However you can use reversible encryption to retrieve the actual bytecode. This is just like people who distribute encrypted Visual Basic scripts (VBE) thinking they are hiding their code.

Next question to the admins then: did you guys decompiled the bytecode, put the pieces back together and checked what exactly the addon code is and what it does? Or is the license not allowing you to do so (even as the distributor and not the end-user)?
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Last edited by Kaomie : 02-17-08 at 08:55 AM.
 
02-17-08, 08:56 AM   #25
tardmrr
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In WoW's Lua, loadstring's ability to load bytecode is deliberately disabled. What you see there is not bytecode. What they've done is put the entire addon into a string and then encrypted it. I didn't bother to look at the specifics of it, but if you really care, you can always hook loadstring and watch what gets passed to it.

Edit: to throw in my opinion, I disapprove of selling addons because I'd rather the author contribute to the community rather than only taking from it. That said, I'm not going to throw a hissy fit and demand that wowi not host the free version.

Last edited by tardmrr : 02-17-08 at 09:13 AM.
 
02-17-08, 09:12 AM   #26
Kaomie
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Originally Posted by tardmrr View Post
In WoW's Lua, loadstring's ability to load bytecode is deliberately disabled. What you see there is not bytecode. What they've done is put the entire addon into a string and then encrypted it. I didn't bother to look at the specifics of it, but if you really care, you can always hook loadstring and watch what gets passed to it.
Okay I guess the fact WoW cannot load bytecode directly is reassuring somehow, thanks for pointing that out. You can blame me as I actually did not check the code at all when I first saw the mess (although the first copyright line being cleartext was bothering me) but you are right, this is nothing else than a loadstring... A huge ugly string with a lot of \' escaping I personally dislike such tricks quite a lot but that is another story

But then again you can intercept the decrypted script before it is compiled into bytecode and passed on to the interpreter right? So I guess my question to the admin remains. Do you guys know what is in there?
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02-17-08, 11:02 AM   #27
mrsquiggle
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Originally Posted by tardmrr View Post
...I'd rather the author contribute to the community rather than only taking from it.
And providing a service both free and paid is taking from the community how exactly?
 
02-17-08, 11:09 AM   #28
mrsquiggle
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Originally Posted by Kaomie View Post
...So I guess my question to the admin remains. Do you guys know what is in there?
My guess is there's an addon that provides questing support and a cool map. You're implying that they are doing something nefarious. Protecting your code (at least from casual examination) seems like a reasonable position if you are trying to make this a business.
 
02-17-08, 11:38 AM   #29
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This is only a problem because you decided on day that you wanted the extra features of the addon, and you can't have it unless you pay. No kittens were harmed in the making of this addon, and it doesn't hurt anyone who uses it.

Wanting something (and obtaining it) without paying for it, in the software industry, is called piracy. As far as wowinterface is concerned, the addon that was submitted to us is technically different than the addon you would be paying for if you decided to do so. THe one on this site does exactly what it says it does, and in no way requires payment to use. Your decision to do so is totally yours, and we will not ever require you to buy an addon from our site.

Last edited by Beladona : 02-17-08 at 11:45 AM.
 
02-17-08, 08:27 PM   #30
MidgetMage55
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Originally Posted by mrsquiggle View Post
My guess is there's an addon that provides questing support and a cool map. You're implying that they are doing something nefarious. Protecting your code (at least from casual examination) seems like a reasonable position if you are trying to make this a business.
I believe the issue here is not a belief of misdeed or evil intention. The rules for the site are that your code must be made available for examination if your going to host here.

Being that most of the mods have chimed in on this mod and have said its ok to stay i would assume that this condition has been met.
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02-17-08, 08:47 PM   #31
Tweeker
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I began this thread so that I could open a few eyes and get others feedback on how they felt about:

How this type of mod hosted on this site, could change the future of addons.

my opinions remains the same,

Since the admins have permitted this ::

A lot more people are going to be doing this for money, and more than likely the very same people that used to do it for pride and generosity.

Addons have always been deemed as safe (in my opinion) that are hosted here because of two reasons.

The site admins approved them.
The authors allowed you to view it's code in full content.

Now that things are different, and i do believe they are heading on a downword spiral now. Mosty because of the acceptance of this addon in particular.

I never once spoke poorly of the addon from the users standpoint, in-game it's great, and it very well may worth it to 'some' people to pay the fee's for the non crippled version. (no, your not going to re define to me the word crippleware, i know damn well what it means and i have hit the nail on the head)

The main thing i was saying when i started this read was:

I will not condone this nor host it on my addon site.
Shame it got accepted/approved here, *waved goodbye to the last known website that held it's head up high with dignity, that hosted quality OPEN SOURCE addons that are 'free' in their full version for the community of www.wowinterface.com*

Feel free to lock/close this thread. Whats done is done, a couple guys looking to make a buck, have knocked on your door, and you let them in with open arms, while the other mod authors stood back picking each others jaw up off the floor.

--Rodger
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02-17-08, 09:11 PM   #32
tardmrr
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The Addon _is_ open source. Yes, they try to hide it, but it's impossible to do otherwise and still have to load in wow. Also, you seem to lack an understanding of how addon copyright works.
 
02-17-08, 09:14 PM   #33
Tweeker
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Originally Posted by tardmrr View Post
The Addon _is_ open source. Yes, they try to hide it, but it's impossible to do otherwise and still have to load in wow. Also, you seem to lack an understanding of how addon copyright works.
not lacking any understanding at all, and it'd be nice if you 'fully' read the posts prior to hitting the reply key.
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02-17-08, 09:32 PM   #34
Petrah
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And you seriously think that everyone will be honest and not copy their work if it wasn't encrypted?
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02-17-08, 09:44 PM   #35
Tweeker
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Originally Posted by Silenia View Post
And you seriously think that everyone will be honest and not copy their work if it wasn't encrypted?
thumbs thru the wikki for 'open source'


Who would care? No one ever has, it's what made this place.

open source addons...

*cough* free
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02-17-08, 09:48 PM   #36
tardmrr
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Originally Posted by Tweeker View Post
not lacking any understanding at all, and it'd be nice if you 'fully' read the posts prior to hitting the reply key.
Originally Posted by Tweeker View Post
2) - Addon authors can NOT edit it for personal use, nor use it's code.
This line here is what leads me to be believe that you don't understand copyright. No one had the right to modify or use code from anywhere other their own mind unless the code is distributed with a license that specifically allows it.
 
02-17-08, 09:52 PM   #37
Tweeker
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All right! cool, proud of ya.

So now you understand this thread then right?

spend some time and read from the bottom
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02-17-08, 09:56 PM   #38
mrsquiggle
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Originally Posted by Tweeker View Post
I began this thread so that I could open a few eyes and get others feedback on how they felt about:...
Funny, I read your initial post and all I see is a demand for the admins to remove the addon or you were leaving.
 
02-17-08, 09:57 PM   #39
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That's really all you see?


If that's the case, I am happy to have hit a larger scale audience with this thread then
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02-17-08, 10:34 PM   #40
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Tweeker, enough. You know very well the rules of this site and you have crossed the line not once but multiple times in this thread. The mod does nothing wrong. Not every mod on this site is "open source". Unless specifically stated otherwise by the individual author, every mod on this site is completely copyright protected and any usage of the code within must be done with the explicit permission of the author in question. Therefore the fact that this mod is obfuscated is not only not breaking any rules, but is actually a right of the author to do so. The mod that is on this site is not crippled in any way, and your continued insistence that it is is incorrect.

It is very simple. If you like it, use it. If you don't, don't. But you will kindly stop insulting the other users of this site or you will be asked to leave.
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