Panel Mod Disgust

[Republic]

Anyone happen to know which revision number of Fubar was the last one to function correctly without overlapping minimap/bar/bouncy frame issues?

Titan and Fubar, you know - two of the top mods in use, both appear to be dead. My definition of dead in this sense - not having a release version updated to current game version. I understand the catch-all "beta" tag that's thrown all over the place and badly misused in this mod world, but honestly, how is it that arguably the two most popular addons are this sloppy in development? Granted, we all have lives outside of the game but damn it guys - do something about such sluggish development.

Here's an idea - put together a team to provide releases. Any thoughts? If one person no longer cares about a certain "responsibility" to the community that comes in developing such popular addons, god sakes - get a group of people to help you put things out in a timely manner. I'd be willing to bet there are folks ready to pick up the ball and run with it.

There is no excuse for the download version of Fubar (on this site) to be 20003. There is no excuse a person should have to go searching through the rather cryptic archives of Ace Files to find something updated and functional with the current game version.

Why is it that new addons are coming out all the time based on outdated panel mods? Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture? If a person can't or won't develop their mod, they need to drop it or pass the baton to someone who can or will. The game of wow itself goes backwards all the time. Lately, Fubar and Titan are moving in the same direction. We get angry at Blizzard for patches that break new things. Why shouldn't we also get angry at addon authors who appear unconscious?

Base addons should be updated. Always. Is it testing? Lack of testing? Lack of concern? Lack of time? What's the deal? Anyone know?

I'll settle for a Fubar that's only "partially broken" and doesnt jump all over my minimap! If anyone knows a version that won't do this - kindly post! I'll put you in my will.

Would it be possible to put Cladhaire (best author going) in charge of everything I use? No? DAMN!

<not really angry or critical - just mildly sick of having to search so hard for updates to Titan and/or Fubar>

Thanks

[Syxx]

The Ace files site is cryptic? I've never had much of a problem figuring it out.
If you want the latest version of fubar, just go here. http://files.wowace.com/FuBar/FuBar.zip
It's always the latest. The lastest version is always bundled into a Modname.zip in it's directory.
Pretty simple I think.

Not sure about your bar mod jumping all over your minimap issue. Does it overlap it or something or does it put it in the face and take it's lunch money?

[Republic]

Originally Posted by Syxx The Ace files site is cryptic? I've never had much of a problem figuring it out. If you want the latest version of fubar, just go here. http://files.wowace.com/FuBar/FuBar.zip It's always the latest. The lastest version is always bundled into a Modname.zip in it's directory. Pretty simple I think. Not sure about your bar mod jumping all over your minimap issue. Does it overlap it or something or does it put it in the face and take it's lunch money?

The latest version, in my opinion, should also be available on this site, Curse, and perhaps even the Virus Haven known as Incgamers. Call me crazy

And yes, it overlaps. Many people are having the same issue(s) and can be found here at a bug reporting link no one really reads anymore (well, it's either that - or no one who can fix things reads it).

Things that make you go hmmm...

[Rigorous]

Originally Posted by Republic There is no excuse for the download version of Fubar (on this site) to be 20003. There is no excuse a person should have to go searching through the rather cryptic archives of Ace Files to find something updated and functional with the current game version.

why does an author (any author, for that matter) have some kind of responsibility to post releases to this site? you obviously seem to know where to find the current version, so why does it have to be posted it here? there are alot of great mods out there that aren't posted to any major hosting site.

the wowace files pages have become far more user-friendly since they implemented packagemancer (not that it was all that cryptic to start with...)...or what could be easier than using WAU? WUU maybe?

the latest version of Fubar on this site is from March 2007....before ckk implemented the Rock framework. the latest version on wowace was updated 2 weeks ago.

i'm really not trying to be argumentative here...just seems like you think the authors owe you something for some reason.

[Republic]

Originally Posted by Rigorous why does an author (any author, for that matter) have some kind of responsibility to post releases to this site? you obviously seem to know where to find the current version, so why does it have to be posted it here? there are alot of great mods out there that aren't posted to any major hosting site. the wowace files pages have become far more user-friendly since they implemented packagemancer (not that it was all that cryptic to start with...)...or what could be easier than using WAU? WUU maybe? the latest version of Fubar on this site is from March 2007....before ckk implemented the Rock framework. the latest version on wowace was updated 2 weeks ago. i'm really not trying to be argumentative here...just seems like you think the authors owe you something for some reason.

1) Because this is the best wow mod site on the net.

2) WAU is a great tool, and I use it daily. It doesn't solve the problem that things aren't being updated/fixed. Once again, I refer you back to the open-ended "beta" term that's tossed around so frequently. But honestly, do you think the average wow user has even heard about WAU? I'm not talking about the game/addon/mod nerd types that live for tinkering with interfaces, but the general wow user. No one knows about this stuff, and for lots of people (not us), this is a very cryptic process (downloading/installing/updating wow addons). For reference, review any site's help forums for 1001 basic questions on topics you and I consider as easy as breathing.

I will try the 2 week old version of Fubar, maybe that helps. Lord knows the bug-reporting does no good. Feel free to review the site posted in my previous response. Tons of open responses, no fixes, and no real activity.

<still mildly disgusted>

Thanks

[Seerah]

Where an author uploads a mod is up to them. Not up to you and your opinions. More locations for a mod = more places to take bug reports = more places to take feature requests = more places to answer support questions = more places to keep updated = more hassle for something that they make for themselves and release to others for free because they're nice.

Anyway, it's not an issue with FuBar, it's an issue with JostleLib, I believe. CK has been a bit AWOL lately - not sure what's happened to him... Perhaps he got tired of seeing people complaining, who knows. Everyone gets burnt out at one time or another. Or maybe he's busy with school. Or with another project. Or maybe something's happened to him.

[ReverendD]

Stop using mods. Issue resolved. Thanx for playing the game and have a nice day.

[Taffu]

Originally Posted by Republic The latest version, in my opinion, should also be available on this site, Curse, and perhaps even the Virus Haven known as Incgamers. Call me crazy

You write an AddOn and then spend the absurd amount of time maintaining it on multiple sites. Then you might have a "vague" understanding of why some authors simply choose to pick one site and one site only to release AddOns on to avoid the time-sink and hassle involved in maintaining multiple release locations. It's a hobby...not a job. Consider yourself lucky that there's as many authors as there are willing to consistently take the time to keep their AddOns up-to-date and available to the public.

[Rigorous]

Originally Posted by Republic 1) Because this is the best wow mod site on the net.

how is that in any way relavent to the issue?

Originally Posted by Republic 2) WAU is a great tool, and I use it daily. It doesn't solve the problem that things aren't being updated/fixed.

if you use WAU then you can easily see updates. and if you use it daily, you wouldn't need to "try the 2 week old version of Fubar" because WAU should've already updated it.

Originally Posted by Republic Once again, I refer you back to the open-ended "beta" term that's tossed around so frequently. But honestly, do you think the average wow user has even heard about WAU?

what about the "beta" term? you mean the fact that the updates you often see on WAU are beta? they are...and there's nothing wrong with that. if you are using WAU daily, you have to use it with that knowledge. if you don't, that's in no way the author's fault. i also don't think "the average wow user" is the "average mod user".

Originally Posted by Republic No one knows about this stuff, and for lots of people (not us), this is a very cryptic process (downloading/installing/updating wow addons).

if they want to use it, then they need to learn about it. period. individual mods aren't for people who aren't willing to tinker with their interface and gain some understanding about how it all works. packages like Mazzle are for those people.

Originally Posted by Republic For reference, review any site's help forums for 1001 basic questions on topics you and I consider as easy as breathing.

then that's an excellent place for those clueless newbies to start learning when they make the jump into using mods. if one isn't willing to learn about and accept all of the potential problems that come with using mods, then one should stick to using the default interface. only Blizzard owes them anything (and if you read the TOS, probably not even that).

beyond that....Seerah and Taffu said it best:

Where an author uploads a mod is up to them

It's a hobby...not a job. Consider yourself lucky that there's as many authors as there are willing to consistently take the time to keep their AddOns up-to-date and available to the public.

if people can't understand those two things....they should see what Rev has to say.

[Kaomie]

I will give the OP some credit for a change
(well at least about his point, not the way to say things)

Any discrepancy between the original addons websites and official releases on major UI sites will generate confusion. In that particular case more often than not we see answers like "wowace is beta anyway, you should not complain if you have a problem", which is perfectly okay, but then where are the official releases? Here? Not when some files are outdated and not compatible with the rest of the latest addons. I update directly against the original websites (being WowAce, Auctioneer, Atlas, GFW and so on), and sometimes it is only 2 or 3 weeks after the release there that it appears here (that is when it pops up in my favorites and I cannot remember whether I already updated it or not ). Most of the time it will never be a problem, but things like this do happen.

I am not saying this is bad or anything, just that I can understand people get confused. Sometimes I do wonder why authors release addons to different websites saying "I will never check this site again, please go to this other site". Why posting here in the first place then? For a better visibility I guess. Again do not get me wrong, I am not implying any "author responsibilities" or whatever you call it, this is obviously a matter of personal opinions and not to be discussed. Just saying the OP has a point somehow. Like others said in this thread you will have to dig around to find your ways I guess.

[Republic]

Originally Posted by Rigorous how is that in any way relavent to the issue?

It is relevant because I make it so! Actually, consider the fact of how "Fubar-friendly" this very major add-on site appears. It's plastered all over the top downloads, etc. and is clearly visible right on the front page as a "source" for Fubar. Now, if I were CK, which thankfully I'm not, I'd probably want to keep my own PORTAL updated. If you cannot see the logic here, perhaps we can just agree to remain in disagreement. I don't think it's expecting too much for an author's "portal site" to be updated. Is it? I mean, that's more like a "base of operations". Keep it current. God sakes.

Originally Posted by Rigorous if you use WAU then you can easily see updates. and if you use it daily, you wouldn't need to "try the 2 week old version of Fubar" because WAU should've already updated it.

Assuming updates fix the problem, this is a perfect solution. However, when updates either 1) further convolute a matter, or 2) fail to address a matter, the simplicity of this process is of no significance. Your statement is incorrect. It should read, "If Fubar updates fixed problems, you wouldn't need to try the 2 week old version of Fubar". No?

Originally Posted by Rigorous what about the "beta" term? you mean the fact that the updates you often see on WAU are beta? they are...and there's nothing wrong with that. if you are using WAU daily, you have to use it with that knowledge. if you don't, that's in no way the author's fault. i also don't think "the average wow user" is the "average mod user".

Nope, but the average wow user becomes the average mod user when he/she joins a guild and someone in their guild says "dude, we all use XXX addon from Wow interface, you need to go get it". And thusly, the cryptic process of updating/tinkering begins (especially for Fubar users). While this is not specific to panel mods, you can certainly follow my point here.

Originally Posted by Rigorous if they want to use it, then they need to learn about it. period. individual mods aren't for people who aren't willing to tinker with their interface and gain some understanding about how it all works. packages like Mazzle are for those people.

That's a true statement. I'd like to refer you to my previous comment above. The average wow user is referred to sites like these all the time. When that happens, in the example of Fubar (only one example among hundreds), they should not happen upon an outdated mod that they cannot get running properly because they "don't know" it's outdated to begin with.


In any event, there's still a major problem with the two main panel mods not being able to keep current with the game version. Period.

[Wowgamer233]

I'm not looking to overly complicate a discussion that has been so very very well addressed by the above posters but an aspect of mod usage that I don't think anyone mentioned is when someone else, other than the mod author, posts a mod to a site, other than it's author's desired home.

I'm sure we have all seen the "I am not the author of this mod. I'm just posting it here for everyone.". That can be a pain for people who consume that mod and do not realize that the posting will probably never get updated again and so will drift out of date and possibly become problematic. The poor user who downloaded it is oblivious to the author's desire to keep it on one or more specific sites for support and update purposes. Personally I never ever dig myself into that hole and always go to the source. Auctioneer is one such example.

Apart from my comments here I too can see no reasons for the semi-rant of "Work for me for nothing and do my bidding" of the OP.

[Rigorous]

Originally Posted by Republic It is relevant because I make it so!

i sincerely hope this was a failed effort to be humorous.

Originally Posted by Republic I don't think it's expecting too much for an author's "portal site" to be updated. Is it? I mean, that's more like a "base of operations".

now, i don't know because i'm not an author (nor do i desire to be), but i'd wager that these "portals" are setup by WoWI automatically when someone uploads a mod. just because it exists doesn't necessarily mean the author has to use it or has some responsibility to it, imo. i'd guess (though i could likely find out with only a few minutes of searching) that his "base of operations" is at google code (where, from what i read, a number of mod authors are), but one look at his portal here and its clear that its not being used (currently, if ever).

Originally Posted by Republic Assuming updates fix the problem, this is a perfect solution.

then i obviously completely misunderstood you. when you said "i use WAU daily" i assumed that to mean "i update all of my mods that are available through WAU daily" which would indeed mean that your version of FuBar was updated two weeks ago. apparently you meant something else since your version of FuBar was not the one currently available through WAU.

Originally Posted by Republic And thusly, the cryptic process of updating/tinkering begins <snip> While this is not specific to panel mods, you can certainly follow my point here.

i do follow you. that is potentially how it begins (for me it began out of personal interest). and in that case, i would say its the guild's fault for not doing a little more hand-holding for people that may have problems. nevertheless, the newbie going to look for those mods now has a responsibility of his own to learn about what he's getting into. those things are not the authors' responsibility.

Originally Posted by Republic When that happens, <snip> they should not happen upon an outdated mod that they cannot get running properly because they "don't know" it's outdated to begin with.

this site has been, imo, excellent about maintaining an exceptional level of "user-friendliness" and making it clear which mods are functional and current and which are not. that is a daunting task. but this again is not the author's responsibility. i would, however, agree that if it's not "maintained" that it should perhaps be taken down (assuming that the most recent version posted is not functioning), but would that solve this problem or only serve to make it worse?

Originally Posted by Republic In any event, there's still a major problem with the two main panel mods not being able to keep current with the game version. Period.

i can't speak for Titan as i stopped paying attention to it a long, long time ago (remember when FuBar was called Boss Panel and Cairenn suggested "FuBar" and plugins called "ClockFu" back when ckk wanted to change the name? thats how long ago it was) but FuBar doesn't seem to have any problems keeping current with the game version. just because you seem to have a problem with it, doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone. i have three FuBars on my screen and they cause me no trouble whatsoever.

your real point seems to be "if you build it...and they come...then you gotta do even more" and i just don't think that's true. again, authors write addons as a hobby and those of us who are users have a responsibility to appreciate that fact instead of complaining with righteous indignation about how we aren't being spoon-fed updates and newer and better mods.

edit: finished a sentence in my mind but not on my keyboard.

[erica647]

Originally Posted by Republic Anyone happen to know which revision number of Fubar was the last one to function correctly without overlapping minimap/bar/bouncy frame issues? Titan and Fubar, you know - two of the top mods in use, both appear to be dead. My definition of dead in this sense - not having a release version updated to current game version. I understand the catch-all "beta" tag that's thrown all over the place and badly misused in this mod world, but honestly, how is it that arguably the two most popular addons are this sloppy in development? Granted, we all have lives outside of the game but damn it guys - do something about such sluggish development. Here's an idea - put together a team to provide releases. Any thoughts? If one person no longer cares about a certain "responsibility" to the community that comes in developing such popular addons, god sakes - get a group of people to help you put things out in a timely manner. I'd be willing to bet there are folks ready to pick up the ball and run with it. There is no excuse for the download version of Fubar (on this site) to be 20003. There is no excuse a person should have to go searching through the rather cryptic archives of Ace Files to find something updated and functional with the current game version. Why is it that new addons are coming out all the time based on outdated panel mods? Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture? If a person can't or won't develop their mod, they need to drop it or pass the baton to someone who can or will. The game of wow itself goes backwards all the time. Lately, Fubar and Titan are moving in the same direction. We get angry at Blizzard for patches that break new things. Why shouldn't we also get angry at addon authors who appear unconscious? Base addons should be updated. Always. Is it testing? Lack of testing? Lack of concern? Lack of time? What's the deal? Anyone know? I'll settle for a Fubar that's only "partially broken" and doesnt jump all over my minimap! If anyone knows a version that won't do this - kindly post! I'll put you in my will. Would it be possible to put Cladhaire (best author going) in charge of everything I use? No? DAMN! <not really angry or critical - just mildly sick of having to search so hard for updates to Titan and/or Fubar> Thanks

After reading all the posts here, I'm not really sure if this is even still an issue. I did a little research and it does seem that the problem is with a couple of conflicting versions of the jostle library. I removed the reference to the version 2.0 of jostle from the xml file of a fubar plugin called locationfu which I found would cause the issue. Since fubar itself loads it's own jostle library (version 3.0), plugins really don't need to include this any more imho. The simplest way to solve this issue for now is to just load a minimap mod like Ricominimap which doesn't get moved by the jostle library (this problem only seems to happen with blizzard's minimap since jostle apparently is only to adjust the blizzard default frames). I also posted a recommended fix on jira if someone wants to take a look.

[Republic]

Originally Posted by erica647 After reading all the posts here, I'm not really sure if this is even still an issue. I did a little research and it does seem that the problem is with a couple of conflicting versions of the jostle library. I removed the reference to the version 2.0 of jostle from the xml file of a fubar plugin called locationfu which I found would cause the issue. Since fubar itself loads it's own jostle library (version 3.0), plugins really don't need to include this any more imho. The simplest way to solve this issue for now is to just load a minimap mod like Ricominimap which doesn't get moved by the jostle library (this problem only seems to happen with blizzard's minimap since jostle apparently is only to adjust the blizzard default frames). I also posted a recommended fix on jira if someone wants to take a look.

Indeed Erica. I saw your post earlier today on Jira and will be trying it very soon. Thank you for posting it over there as well as here.