MazzleGASM FAQ

[Verissi]

Originally Posted by Auralei Well, in theory, those are all nice ideas for dealing with the yell

Nothing I stated is a theory on dealing with the yell. They are facts and I have performed every one of them (note especially my emphasis that flying mounts do not work for the "flying" option as illustrative of this).

I encourage you to reread the final paragraph of my post. I am not taking sides at all in this debate, which I daresay is more of an argument at this point. My entire reason for posting at all is stated in that paragraph and I believe I stated it accurately: to offer alternatives. I did not have any intention, as should be rather evident, of being the judge of whether or not it's appropriate for any UI, compilation, or add-on to perform such an action, so please do not construe what I posted as any endorsement for either "camp".

Also, please note that I was very careful to preface what I said with the words "Personally, I"...which expresses that it is my opinion only and does not apply to you or anyone else. I also made it clear that I don't object to it myself, but don't find it in character for me, so I worked around it while preserving the original intent of Mazzlefizz (and letting me keep my giggles without undue character-breaking in-game).

[Luhar]

Originally Posted by Auralei Are you serious?!?!?! Your entire post was in support of an author who bullies people to do things their way! Holy hypocritical, Batman!!!

Whoa! Back up there, cowboy. Mazzle isn't bullying anybody to do things their way. You can choose not to use the addon.

Gello, on the other hand, is acting like a bully. So is anybody demanding that Mazzle change his\her own addon.

It boggles my mind how far this issue has gone.

p.s. MazzleFizz, it's getting tiresome typing him/her or his/hers all the time. How about letting us all know which set of pronouns to use when referring to you. Or should we refer to a group of people them/they/theirs?

[deac]

This whole thing went downhill fast .

[Satrina]

Originally Posted by trickdaemon ...Are you serious? :| Why would you ever do this? He wasn't harming them.

I myself have refused (both before I took a break and since I got back into the addon biz) quite a few requests from users to have my buff mod give a say/party/raid warning when buffs are expiring. Stuff like this annoys the hell out of people, and I personally feel that I have no right for my addon to do things that a) the user is not in control of, or b) annoys other people. If one of my addons were in the compilation, I would have to make the same request out of consistency to my own values. Just because you don't share those values is not a reason to become derisive.

[Auralei]

Originally Posted by Verissi Nothing I stated is a theory on dealing with the yell. They are facts and I have performed every one of them (note especially my emphasis that flying mounts do not work for the "flying" option as illustrative of this). I encourage you to reread the final paragraph of my post. I am not taking sides at all in this debate, which I daresay is more of an argument at this point. My entire reason for posting at all is stated in that paragraph and I believe I stated it accurately: to offer alternatives. I did not have any intention, as should be rather evident, of being the judge of whether or not it's appropriate for any UI, compilation, or add-on to perform such an action, so please do not construe what I posted as any endorsement for either "camp". Also, please note that I was very careful to preface what I said with the words "Personally, I"...which expresses that it is my opinion only and does not apply to you or anyone else. I also made it clear that I don't object to it myself, but don't find it in character for me, so I worked around it while preserving the original intent of Mazzlefizz (and letting me keep my giggles without undue character-breaking in-game).

Well honestly, I came to this thread to link a fix. One that was perfectly legal, and one that's been duplicated by another author on another site. I came here to help the unfortunate souls who do not know how to edit .lua, and who shouldn't have to, and those same individuals shouldn't have to have a "work around" for a feature that's presence is questionable at best. I realize you didn't give out those alternatives as theory, MY theory was based upon the fact that not everyone has used this pack before, and not everyone knows it's coming. If they do, your alternatives are fine and dandy, although it would be annoying to me to have to do that every single time I Mazzified. But if they haven't used this package before, and don't know about the yell, those alternatives aren't worth anything now are they?

I'm not here to bash Mazzle, at least I wasn't previously, I was here to help perhaps get some other users going. People who couldn't, or wouldn't use it before. But I guess it's better that all this happen now rather than later.

[Auralei]

Originally Posted by Luhar Whoa! Back up there, cowboy. Mazzle isn't bullying anybody to do things their way. You can choose not to use the addon. Gello, on the other hand, is acting like a bully. So is anybody demanding that Mazzle change his\her own addon. It boggles my mind how far this issue has gone. p.s. MazzleFizz, it's getting tiresome typing him/her or his/hers all the time. How about letting us all know which set of pronouns to use when referring to you. Or should we refer to a group of people them/they/theirs?

I disagree on many, many levels. Mazzle has indeed bullied people to get their own way. That's what the extremely condescending MazzleGASM FAQ was for.
"Put up with the GASM, or don't use my pack." "Subject your entire server to my whims, or else." Also, "Don't mess with me or I'll take my Marbles and go home." Pathetic.

[ashandarei]

seems to me it's all blown out of proportion. just going by mazzle's posts on here and on the wow forums, he or she as it may be is not a person i would get along with if i knew them in real life(no offense mazzle) . but that doesn't take away from the skill and effort it took to put the UI together. i don't particularly like mazzleui except for a few elements(the hud makes me /drool, i'd pay cash for it) but it's still a pretty awesome package.

thing is, i use addons that do what i want. sometimes many different addons do the same thing. in that case i use the addon or addons that do what i want with the least effort on my part. can mazzlegasm be turned off? yes. is it a pain in the ass to do so? yes on that count as well. seems to me mazzle is putting a lot more effort into defending himself about mazzlegasm and insisting it stay on in the UI pack than it would take to add an option to disable it.

as for copyright infringement for people who disable it and then redistribute the mod pack, that's debatable. it's an addon, for a videogame. not shareware. the legalities are pretty blurry about it. and if mazzle stops updating it, you can be 110% certain that somewhere, someone will pick it up and at least continue it in some form until the next patch that redoes wow's interface mechanics, be it standalone or just a discord mods pack.

[Tissa]

Originally Posted by Auralei Are you serious?!?!?! Your entire post was in support of an author who bullies people to do things their way! Holy hypocritical, Batman!!!

No Mazzle is not forcing anyone to change their mod to suit them. They made a mod, said here it is. You can use it or not. That is not bulling ANYONE to use it. If you don't like the mazzlgasm there are many ways around it, see above. Mazz has even said they are fine with people disabling it or changing it.


To Quote "I absolutely did not tell people they shouldn't tweak or modify whatever they want as they see fit, including my code. It's their computer and their UI. I simply took issue with people redistributing it or posting patches."

So again where is Mazz forcing someone to change their mod that they worked hours on to suit their wants? Simply they are not. They are only concerned with their mod. And it is sad that because of this the wow community will most likely lose a great mod.

And to Nzomniak I agree it would be great if we could. But looking back at world history I think the chance of the sea forever freezing has a better chance of happening.

[Auralei]

Originally Posted by Tissa "I absolutely did not tell people they shouldn't tweak or modify whatever they want as they see fit, including my code. It's their computer and their UI. I simply took issue with people redistributing it or posting patches."

In other words, they are against anyone informing others who to disable the feature or posting a fix to the feature......bullying. They also have no right to take that stance. Thank you.

EDIT: By the way, this isn't about Mazzle. Although I'm sure they'd like it to be. It's about the users and I'd like to help THEM use this package. I couldn't care less about Mazzle anymore.

[Mazzlefizz]

Originally Posted by Psyche_Doomhammer I believe that this warrants a response from Mazzle. It would seem to me that inclusiong of GPL addons dictates his compilation also be released under the GPL which would in turn allow others to release a modified version of this compilation, without express permission of its author.

If you follow that link, I think you'd agree that it's a pretty thorny issue, and that Nymbia may have oversimplified it. There's all sorts of stuff about what if something contains GPL code and non-GPL code, what are GPL-compatible licenses, etc.. There's a whole slew of question about how GPL interacts with other license agreements.

My intuition is that a licensing agreement would not have the power to overwrite the copyright or licensing of another thing simply because it's distributed in parallel. My guess is what that quote describes are projects when you actually link in, use as a dependency or modify a piece of GPL-licensed code. I'm not a lawyer, but that's how I read it, for what that's worth.

Anyway, this is all silly. My only desire was that people not redistribute altered versions or patches of my add-ons. It's really not that shocking a desire.

And Tissa, I wouldn't get too mad at Gello. While I'm disappointed that he didn't just privately contact me with whatever concerns he has and ask me to remove them and instead publically-leveraged into demand, that's his perogative. I REALLY enjoy his add-ons and contributions, and I'm going to pay him more respect than these kids who choose to alter, redistribute or offer patches chose to offer me.

[Tissa]

Originally Posted by Mazzlefizz And Tissa, I wouldn't get too mad at Gello. While I'm disappointed that he didn't just privately contact me with whatever concerns he has and ask me to remove them and instead publically-leveraged into demand, that's his perogative. I REALLY enjoy his add-ons and contributions, and I'm going to pay him more respect than these kids who choose to alter, redistribute or offer patches chose to offer me.

You have the patients of a saint. *laughs* I will admit that his addons are well done. But as you say it is his prerogative.. But if you need a new item mod, have you ever tried Closetgnome, it is rather easy to use and it is really cute.. and it is a gnome. *giggles* But meh life goes on... but please don't stop your mod, it is a great piece of work.

[Nymbia]

Originally Posted by Mazzlefizz If you follow that link, I think you'd agree that it's a pretty thorny issue, and that Nymbia may have oversimplified it. There's all sorts of stuff about what if something contains GPL code and non-GPL code, what are GPL-compatible licenses, etc.. There's a whole slew of question about how GPL interacts with other license agreements.

Indeed. Moreso, WoW addons are on odd legal ground to begin with, as arguably derivative works of blizzard's property.

I'm pretty sure not many authors are gonna be bringing anything to court to back up their copyrights, anyway.

[mfrnka]

Originally Posted by orb360 See, this is why windows users are so prone to virii and other malicious software....

Wha?!? How is this remotely relevant to the discussion?

[Psyche_Doomhammer]

Originally Posted by Mazzlefizz I absolutely did not tell people they shouldn't tweak or modify whatever they want as they see fit, including my code. It's their computer and their UI. I simply took issue with people redistributing it or posting patches.

Just noticed this Mazzle. You edited previous posts with instructions on how to disable the emotes in your code. Yet you say you don't care if people modify your code on their own computer as long as they don't redistribute. Does your rather broad definition of redistribute now include plain english instructions on how to modify code?

Just for kicks, please reference this thread:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...17385&sid=1#95

Look for Neuro's post.

[Orli]

Respectively, I cannot believe some of you people. someone referred to Mazzle serving us? Pardon me if I dont scroll back and reread... the garbage coming out of this thread astounds me. Mazzle serves him/herself. Plz reread my post. it states quite unoffensively.. He/she doesnt have to do this. this is a service he/she provides for free.(not quoting). I'm not suggesting we serve him/her but he/she is doing us a favor for heaven's sake.
Mazzle. I can't see this thread going anywhere productive. I respect your patience thus far and would not fault you at all if you said enough is enough. should you find yourself in that position, I would be grateful if you would add me to your mailing list with updates should you choose to do them and I would understand if you don't.

I started an account here to praise your work, sadly I found this forum first and had a look.

Auralei and the rest of you who REALLY need to get a reality check. Wake up tomorrow and spend countless hours and efforts building a baby like this one. Then sit back and let a whole bunch of people tell you to change something so miniscule as an opening joke. This thing you made that was so perfect to you... too many people don't try to walk in another person's shoes before judging them. Try for one second to think of something other than your own foolish pride and self adoration. Its Mazzle's compilation, If it were mine, I'd keep it all to myself after hearing from you lot.

Flame away, misery loves company.. but turn down the Jerry Springer... (it's making you all owly and stuff)

Reply if you like my interest here ends now. Guess I'm taking my marbles and going home.
(and its a ball. one takes one's ball and goes home)

[Auralei]

As I said, I wasn't here to bash Mazzle, I don't care about Mazzle. I care about the numerous people who would like to use his/her addon but can't due to a simple line of code.

I had a reality check, that was when I uninstalled this addon based on principal alone and made my own. I've built one. I don't distribute it, personal choice. Mazzle knew what he/she was getting into when they started, or at least they should have.

Anyway, this is about the Mazzlegasm, and the fact that copyright does not apply. And the fact that certain individuals don't want it being broadcast.

[Karil]

I for one am very proud of Mazzle for not bowing down to the people who make threats and Bold statements.

I am still amazed at the number of people who install things on there Systems and never read the documentation.

I find it even harder ( But I guess i understand) Gellos comments and Ultimatum (Cease and Desists)

I hope Mazzle never bows to any of you.


If you make a Product and you release it to the market. Lets say it is a Massive hit with the populous. Yet a small group of people want to use it but they dont like something about it and then they say ok we will never use your product unless you change it.

At some point you have to draw a line and say this is as far as i am going and no further.
It has been stated where Mazzle would met users on changes to his Product.

I would say once more if you do not like it dont use it .. But Apparently some of you do like it you just dont like parts of it .I think you just dont like being told No


Any ways I love the UI I love the feel the funny parts.

This is a GAME you are all playing not Real life get a grip.

Any ways to all of the Offended people who have posted here.

I ask one question. have you told Blizzard you will not Play WoW until the remove (Rude Gesture) ? How abot Most of the Emotes?

How about Heres the Beef ?

What about almost ever single /Silly in the Game

Ever person who has posted about how this offended them and has not posted on www.WoW.com about how the game its self Offended them are nothing more that Hypocrites

Really people there are more Off colour comments Built into the game that the ONE that you Downloaded for Free and Chose to install your Self

[mrwuss]

If you don't like it...don't use it?


Sorta...easy to figure out...


wow, this game brings out the self righteous back woods types.

[Mazzlefizz]

Yeah, I've seen the thread in the UI forums. I think it's a vicious mob-like mess that is strife with inaccuracies and unfair characterizations. I must admit there are a couple good points though.

Aurelai, I never said that people should not modify their own files. Just because I did not allow them to be posted here, does not imply the stronger position that I think people are not allowed to modify their files. I just don't want to support this particular one. It's not hypocritical to discourage things I don't agree with.

And your claim that copyright does not apply is also not true. Well, iyou didn't actually specify an object, but if you mean to imply that copyright does not apply to addons, that's not true. When I mentioned copyright, I was specifically talking about the first "patch" he posted that was straight-up code modified and re-distributed. In one of WoW forum post, Iriel even confirmed that she'd think I have every right to complain about code modified and redistributed.

Originally Posted by Iriel I believe he can reasonably object to people re-distributing his AddOn with the gasm removed, or edited, simply because he specifically requests that they dont in each file. I dont believe he has any such objection to executables performing 'surgical updates' of the code, or AddOns that ensure that the code doesn't actually happen. (And if so, they're most certainly NOT on copyright grounds)

Anyway, when that guy changed his patch from actual code re-distribution to some sort of diff patch, I explicitly said that I had no idea how copyright applies to patches. I did not petition any site to remove those patches. (I might have at worldofwar, but I at that time I was assuming that it was the same as the one he posted on curses. Actually, I don't know which one he has up there now.) So, all these people extending what I said to procedural patches or even just self-modifications is patently unfair.

And Psychehammer, just b/c I know people have every right to do whatever the hell they want on their own computer (I never said otherwise), does not mean I have to support, encourage or instruct people on how to make changes. I don't like this particular change, so I didn't support it. If somebody released a patch that turned the installer graphics into a bunch of nude porno starlets, I would not support those (well, maybe a little on the inside, but not enough to allow it to be hosted in whatever capacity to choose that). My not actively or passively supporting external modification does not imply anything about your rights on your computer.

That said, I did find that post you linked to makes a good point. I'm big enough to say that he's probably right. I do some patch-like stuff in my add-ons. While I don't do it to override the specific wishes of the author -- it's usually just to make things easier to configure or modify -- I don't think there's an objective measure of what's a valid reason to patch and what isn't. While I probably won't continue this project -- today really opened my eyes to the nasty and unfair nature of people I'm spending all my time on -- as long as they're not releasing modified code, I'm not going to take any issue with patches being posted elsewhere any more. Post a porn version of the installer at your own risk. I don't think people will react well to it.

[Mazzlefizz]

OK, apparently Blizzard has contacted Cairenn in some capacity. As stated in the first post and all my previous posts, my argument has always been on the fact that I don't think it's offensive or inappropriate in the often-suggestive environment that Blizzard created. I'm not exactly sure what they said. I'm guessing it's either (a) they explicitly think it's inappropriate, (b) they don't want the API commands used in that way, or (c) they don't like the complaining and they're going to apply pressure to make it end. If it's the first two, the basis of my argument no longer holds, and, if it's the last one, I would still choose to abide to their request. The bottom line is it's their game and I'm a guest in it. I'll take of my shoes before entering, and put a Mazzlegasm switch in the installer for it.