Enemy Cooldown Tracking

[Kaomie]

Originally Posted by matcauthonrh Because your answer is far more spiteful than helpful.

At least part of the message made it

[matcauthonrh]

Originally Posted by Kaomie At least part of the message made it

I decided to look you up on armory. After getting my laughter back under control, it occurred to me... why did you bother posting when you clearly know nothing about PvP?

Please. Do not try to talk the talk unless you can walk the walk. I hope to god that these aren't your main characters, if so I am embarrassed on your behalf.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...7zhul&n=Kaomie

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...zhul&n=Kaldora

...

Do you not see the hypocrisy?


Never post in a thread I start again please. Please excuse my harshness, your post aggravated me with its ignorance.

[Kaomie]

Hey, I'm just happy to bring more attention to your case than repeated bumping.

[Zyonin]

Word of caution regarding bumping threads:

On almost all of the forums that I am an active poster on, constantly bumping your own threads over and over tends to annoy both users and moderators/admins. Users then complain to the forum moderators and the thread in question gets locked. In addition the bumper of said thread often gets a warning, suspension or an outright ban.

In other words: Do not repeatly bump your own (or other's) threads or you risk the wrath of the mods.

Regarding trying to track enemy player cooldowns:

Trying to track enemy player cooldowns is a royal pain in the a**. Unlike mob CDs, with players you have various talents that have to taken into consideration. These talents will reduce or in some cases eliminate the CD in question. Then you have talents like Cold Snap or Preparation while they have long CD in themselves, totally reset other spell/skill CDs allowing your opponent to WTF pwn you and rendering CD tracking useless. However not all players will take these types of talents and the author of such a mod would have to take ALL of these scenarios into consideration while coded this type of mod. Most good PvPers know this and develop the skills to see when things like Earth Shock, Ice Block, Cold Snap, comes into play and use reflexes and skills gained through many a death (normally their own deaths) to counter them rather than relying on a mod that can be easily broken/rendered useless to "assist" them.

[matcauthonrh]

Originally Posted by Xinh Word of caution regarding bumping threads: On almost all of the forums that I am an active poster on, constantly bumping your own threads over and over tends to annoy both users and moderators/admins. Users then complain to the forum moderators and the thread in question gets locked. In addition the bumper of said thread often gets a warning, suspension or an outright ban. In other words: Do not repeatly bump your own (or other's) threads or you risk the wrath of the mods. Regarding trying to track enemy player cooldowns: Trying to track enemy player cooldowns is a royal pain in the a**. Unlike mob CDs, with players you have various talents that have to taken into consideration. These talents will reduce or in some cases eliminate the CD in question. Then you have talents like Cold Snap or Preparation while they have long CD in themselves, totally reset other spell/skill CDs allowing your opponent to WTF pwn you and rendering CD tracking useless. However not all players will take these types of talents and the author of such a mod would have to take ALL of these scenarios into consideration while coded this type of mod. Most good PvPers know this and develop the skills to see when things like Earth Shock, Ice Block, Cold Snap, comes into play and use reflexes and skills gained through many a death (normally their own deaths) to counter them rather than relying on a mod that can be easily broken/rendered useless to "assist" them.

More ignorance and theorycraft that you cannot apply. Again, if you're going to talk the talk please be able to walk the walk. Very simple request.

The mod could easily deal with talents/gear altering CDs. Simply assume based on enemy buffs. For example, shadowpriest's PS CD is 26 seconds, holy/disc is 30 seconds. Next patch enemy's buffs become shown to all. It could also be coordinated with one of the mods that reveals enemy spec.
Since this would be a PvP add-on one could simply have it assume the popular spec and gear choices for PvP.
Or, just as viably, use some sort of marking system to display the mod's 'guesses.'
Example: Priest psychic screams, timer bar pops up counting upwards. There are hashmarks at both 26 and 30 seconds allowing the player to judge with other information available to him.

As for cold snap/preparation/whatever, that would have little bearing as the mod should be able to take that into account and cancel bars when this move occurs, or if this is not possible, the player should be vigilant enough to realize what's happening. Currently there are mods that tell you your opponent's specs in arena, so if you're fighting a frost mage or prep rogue, you pretty much know what to expect.

As far as bumping this, I've received no contact from a mod or administrator here, so I will continue bumping it until this is resolved. If the mods don't like it, fine, I'll take it elsewhere, but it's difficult for me to imagine that people would have a real problem with honest persistence.

Frankly I find this kind of willful ignorance and rejectionism stupid.

[WaldoJeffers]

I Found Xinh's post quite constructive. All I could recommend is NECB, But as you said it doesn't give all needed info and spells apparently, and requesting a more in depth form of enemy CD tracking is fair enough imo. I've been meaning to use NECB for a while now, ( I know it tracks CoS, and id like that tracked for better timing) I'd be more inclined to make requests to better NECB's tracking though. I'd love to see CD tacking be more advanced, and would happily use it. GL

[matcauthonrh]

Originally Posted by Qynova I Found Xinh's post quite constructive. All I could recommend is NECB, But as you said it doesn't give all needed info and spells apparently, and requesting a more in depth form of enemy CD tracking is fair enough imo. I've been meaning to use NECB for a while now, ( I know it tracks CoS, and id like that tracked for better timing) I'd be more inclined to make requests to better NECB's tracking though. I'd love to see CD tacking be more advanced, and would happily use it. GL

Already tried with the author of NECB. He quit the game and does not want to improve his mod, only maintain it. And he doesn't want to give control up.

Personally, I found Xinh's post to be a rehash of Kaomie's earlier ignorance.

"Zomg, this mod would be a crutch. REAL PvPers don't need mods! I'm not sure why I'm a mod author, maybe I like pretty lights on my screen! ! I have 1400 ratings! I r PVP GOD! I know all! BESIDES YOU CAN'T DO THIS! It would be hard! 'Cause of uh...TALENTS, OMG.'

None of which is valid.

[Kaomie]

If instead of taking it personally you would have checked these forums you would have seen I am the devil's advocate around here. My joke "learn2pvp" was just the Official-Forums-aligned reply to your bumping, but that went right past you. All I wanted was to have you say something else than "bump", which did work and with good arguments and ways to do it too. In your last 3 posts you brought more to your request than you ever did.

[Slakah]

Even though imo you've been a bit of an arse, to people who have attemped to help you.

Here is another tidbit of information download antagonist go into data then add the extra cooldowns you want in Cooldown.lua its not hard.

[matcauthonrh]

Originally Posted by Slakah Even though imo you've been a bit of an arse, to people who have attemped to help you. Here is another tidbit of information download antagonist go into data then add the extra cooldowns you want in Cooldown.lua its not hard.

I'm going to overlook the fact that those I've been an ass to have not been helping me, they've been trying to discourage me. Or if Kaomie is to believed, manipulating me into posting some other than 'bump.' Thank you for your honest response anyway. Could you please give me a detailed walthrough on that? Playing WoW is about the extent of my computer literacy.

[Gemini_II]

Nice. Just because you are not getting the answer you are looking for, does not grant you the right to be a jerk. Considering many of us have been playing this game for a couple years or longer and have seen many addons come and go, you'd think some of us may have a clue what we're talking about.

Back to topic: NECB by default ignores many CD's to reduce spam and latency. Ever try enebling all of them? Or going into the .LUA file to see if more can be added? You can add more CD's to Antagonist as well that way. If latency is already an issue for you, having a mob that aggressively parses and monitors tons of CD's may not be the wisest request... perhaps that's why no one has made one? Dunno.

I decided to look you up on armory.

Is that you Ming?

[Kaomie]

Originally Posted by Gemini_II you'd think some of us may have a clue what we're talking about.

Not me, I am just an ignorant. Oh well I can live with that.

[matcauthonrh]

Originally Posted by Gemini_II Nice. Just because you are not getting the answer you are looking for, does not grant you the right to be a jerk. Considering many of us have been playing this game for a couple years or longer and have seen many addons come and go, you'd think some of us may have a clue what we're talking about. Back to topic: NECB by default ignores many CD's to reduce spam and latency. Ever try enebling all of them? Or going into the .LUA file to see if more can be added? You can add more CD's to Antagonist as well that way. If latency is already an issue for you, having a mob that aggressively parses and monitors tons of CD's may not be the wisest request... perhaps that's why no one has made one? Dunno. Is that you Ming?

Ah the pile on.

It has less to do with me receiving answers I don't want and more to do with simply answering ignorance in a forthright and direct manner. Rather than attacking what you perceive to be my attitude, please address what I've actually said if you want to take a confrontational appraoch.

Do I think the two people who tried to discourage me know what they're talking about? Nope. Both of their posts were dismissive and ignorant. I'm not going to be stopped by ignorance. Neither of them offered a real reason why I should stop looking and you haven't either.

As far editing LUA, as I stated earlier, playing WoW is the extent of my computer literacy. Please give me a walkthrough on making NECB and/or Antagonist work with all cooldowns.
That would be in-line with the intent of this post and far more productive than random discouragement.

[Gemini_II]

I don't think anyone has tried to discourage you, and sorry if you got that impression. I think some people were just trying to express their own opinions, and seeing as our countries support free speech, this is acceptable.

I'm not trying to attack you or your attitude. You have, at your own admission, stated you don't know how to code. That's OK. You can't demand that someone do it for you though. As Xinh mentioned, trying to coerce authors will not get anywhere productive. Also mentioned was that there is probably some good reasons why after 3 years we have not seen a mod as you describe. Some things simply cannot be tracked. Sometimes it's even hard to guess at a game mechanic. Many talents will augment CD's and there is no in-game method of pulling every targets talent build.

I have never looked at the LUA code for NECB because it works fine as is for me. Have you? If you do, you may find comments that will easily tell you how to enable the info you want. I know SCT is like that. You may not understand anything in the file, in which case, ask.


PS:
@ Kaomie
I'm OK with that too. Ignorance is bliss after all.

[Zyonin]

/Begin Rant

I take offense to someone telling me that I do not know what I am talking about. I have been playing WoW since May of 2005. I have done PvP on numerous characters (got to Knight on my Druid under the old system and I do Arena as well). The Armory may not show much now cuz lately I have been spending alot of time in SSC and The Eye before I had freeze my account due to money issues. I have used and discarded many AddOns and UIs over this period of time. And during this period of time I have gotten to know lua somewhat due to my hacking of mods to personalize them for myself. I started out with simple mods like Industrial's or Tekkub's and have learned to go through line by line to find the line that I need to change to customize a mod. I have since progressed onto tinkering with more complex mods and I am in the process of learning lua and the various frameworks so I can start writing my own mods. I have also put together several complete UIs for both myself and my guild. That said if you had read what I and others have said, you would have gotten a clue. I have used enemy CD tracking mods like Antagonist and NECB. However those mods do not pull down player talents builds so that they can adjust CD tracking accordingly. Currently the only mods that do pull down and display talent builds are mods that use the Rock framework (and players have choosen to allow RockComm to display this info). However even then the most those mods display is the end talent build (ie Feral 5/41/15) and not the actual talents themselves. Until Blizzard builds into the client the ability to pull a player's COMPLETE talent built, enemy player CD tracking is mostly useless. If you want this ability then goto the Suggestions forum on the official WoW boards and make the request.

However do take into account that if Blizzard does add this ability AND a mod is written to take advantage of it, such a mod is likely to be extremely heavy on system resources. This one of the big reasons why I dumped both NECB and Antagonist. Most avid PvPers rely on "twitch" reflexes and thus cannot have mods causing lag issues. Watch some PvP videos and you will see that most of the UIs are stripped down as much as they can be so they present the needed information and yet will not cause client-side lag issues. I do this myself when I get into my PvP periods (ie, I am not in progression PvE raiding).

/End Rant

[Kaomie]

I am sure lag can be an issue for many, but for some people with enough processing power it would not really matter. I still think tracking cooldowns will not be reliable enough in PvP to be decisive for the well-trained players, but since the info exists and out of curiosity I looked into some code. This is definitely not within NECB main scope and I think it already does more than the initial author intend "enemy cast bar". However it should be tracked by Antagonist. The event log API is still not completely documented for combat but from what we can find I think the problem might be Antagonist does not register CHAT_MSG_SPELL_PERIODIC_SELF_DAMAGE for PARSE_CASTS_HITS which is responsible for cooldowns handling. I think this would be the proper event since the combat message has the "You are afflicted by %s." format. It may have been overlooked because it tracks an enemy cooldown for a debuff applied to you. Just an idea, anyone cares to verify that?

But like we said even if that triggers the tracking you will only get the default cooldowns, like the 180s for Blind which may be shortened by talents. Even with the X/Y/Z availability you will still not know if the enemy has or not the talent. And it still does not mean he will use it right away or even ever during the rest of the fight. Approximate timers would be more misleading than anything else, having the general feeling of when it is going to happen again based on your experience and the enemy play style would be as good. Again the UI community is huge and there are addons for everything and anything (literally anything), so it would be surprising no one ever did that if it was that much relevant. Maybe it is something new and no one ever looked into it, what do I know after all being an ignorant and all.

[Alumno]

I'd like to point out that regardless of everyone's feelings towards the OP. This mod DOES exist. If you are interested in the search effort and/or recreation of this mod by all means please help.

look at pigvomit's 1v2 arena video filmed at the beginning of season 2
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=42898

I would link the thread where pigvomit (hoove from blackrock now) identifies the mod and declares it a private addon, but the forums seem to be failing on patch day.

Lastly on this, if you go to his rupture information (which conveniently inventories his addons) you can see the magictrack addon installed.
http://www.rupture.com/characters/US...mit?tab=addons

My LUA coding knowledge is zero, but from what you can see here, this information can be gathered from the client for such things as counterspell, spell lock, divine shield, spell interrupt warnings etc.

if anyone has any direction on this subject your help would be greatly appreciated

[Sole]

Ive been pointed to this thread from irc.

As some of you may know, Im the author of antagonist.

Antagonist was written a long time ago. The data files are outdated. The parsing methods need work. The display and options need work. And many other design changes.

Since I have time to code again, I will be recoding Antagonist (most likely after I finish Gladiator/****fight).

Currently the big changes are:

- unique player tracking using the GUID from the new combat log (means more accurate timer tracking as well)
- for cooldowns which can be affected by gear/talents I will add a 'caution zone'. For example, Psychic Scream can have a cooldown between 23 seconds and 30 seconds. The cooldown timer will be 30 seconds long, at the 23 second mark a red border (or other visual identifier) will appear around the timer indicating that the cooldown could be up now.
- much saner options
- new look (will be using ace3 most likely)
- much less memory usage (antagonist isnt great by any stretch of the imagination).

For the "hardcore" pvpers here claiming they dont need timer addons - suit yourself. Im a PVPer myself and I write my addons for pvp. My interface is stripped down and thats how I like to keep it, so no addon of mine will go against that.

And you guys need to relax :P

[xpyder]

Natur EnemyCastBar - popular, out of date. Owner may be updating at some point

Enemy Ability Bar - not just cooldowns, shows bars with all the abilities of your enemies. "The addon is fully customizable...and add abilities by your own."

Aesa (Enemy Cooldown Tracker) - Popular, looks like mostly what you want but doesn't say how customizable it is.


p.s. I found all these on curse, I don't know how many of them are on WoWI. I searched "enemy" and got few results so you could try that too

[Jigain]

You are aware this thread had been dead for over three years before you posted, yes?