WoWInterface and Curse working together to help protect authors and other site-users - Page 33

Bluspacecow · 04-20-09, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Sparky911

WoW Matrix did not remove donation requests in plugins, I know this because my nUI still asks for one in the description. WoW Matrix worked well and still works well for me. I think it was selfish that you and curse chose this path rather then working with WoW Matrix. I personally don't like the Curse Client, never have and never will. I think WoW Interface and WoW Matrix should get together. WoW Matrix could be the addon updater for WoW Interface like Curse Client is for Curse.

I personally will stick with WoW Matrix as long as I have too

Read :

http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...&postcount=108

Also :

They have tried repeatedly to "work together" with Wow Matrix. People seem to have this strange idea that If only Curse / Wowinterface had just sent the "nice" people at wowmatrix an email and discussed this they could come up with a solution that work for everyone and there would be general sunshine , rainbows , flying bacon and little lambs leaping gaily around.

Um no.

I can remember Kaelten complaining about wow matrix in April 2008. Thats 1 year ago. They've ignored any requests from wow interface to work with them. They've apparently talked to Curse , offering to buy the rights to the addons. At a price that barely covers 1/20 of the costs they incurr.

So yeah they've tried talking with and working with wow matrix. It's Wowmatrix that aren't co-operating here. Not the other way around

Kaelten · 04-20-09, 08:42 AM

We (curse) have also offered to buy WM for a reasonable price, considering the amount of effort they say put into it. They countered with a price so high it was laughable.

Donnaterassi · 04-20-09, 10:46 AM

At least tha'ts what my post would have been called, but I can't make new posts. So instead, here it is at the bottom of page 33 of the wowmatrix rant log.

I am Donna, and I am addicted to dots.
(Hyi Donna)
I need moar dots.(the warlock is my escape from healing)

Which led me down the dark side. Mods, macros, keybindings, rotations and ui enhancements.
Things they don't mention: interface folder, addon folder, the interface folder INSIDE the addon folder. and Updates. OMG seems I am constantly updating.

So I found this sweet little updater, at least it was supposed to be, at curse. It was supposed to do everything but walk my dogs for me. But it never did do anything for me. I could never get it to work. Never.

Whining about it in gchat one day (doesn't everyone) someone told me about wowmatrix, lols and says "there's these shivvy banner ads at the top so roll your screen a scooch so you don't have to see them and Donna, ...even you cannot mess this up."
He was right, after failing 6 times with curse it was a blessing to be up and running.
And so much more.
More dots, yes.
More mods, Oh, yes.

I am a mod whore. I find them, I try them and recommend (or condemn) them to others.
I may be easy, but it's not cheap being this easy.
If I like your mod. I donate.
Even if I only use one itsy bit of it (you see, I am still using it) so I pay.

Before Wowmatrix...Gatherer, tomtom, easymailer and tastethenamebow. Those four got my ducats.

Now I use 112. (And No, that isn't counting the 18 DBM modules separately, that would just be silly.) If you make a raid mod for healing pallys, I probably use your mod, and you can thank wowmatrix, because that's where I found you.

One thing I particularly liked was that clicking a mod opened a separate window to the authors webpage and if the mod could not be updated, because the author's site was down (or whatever) a small popper with an explanation.

Just keep doing what you're doing. I am sure that this new generation of gold buying, node stealing, noob ganking players will remain loyal to you when they have to visit 112 separate site and down load 112 files and unzip 112 separate files and remove/replace 112 folders. I know I will.

Um.

Not.

Nazagthrall · 04-20-09, 11:51 AM

Instead of working with an organization it is always best to take the totalitarian approach to crush them instead. Why would you want to deal with people to grant access to your expanded client base in such an easy way? Well, first and foremost is personal profit. It has little to do with individual recognition as long as the collective interest of WoWInterface.com and Curse.com are given a chance to get their just deserves.

It seems to be that instead of telling WoWMatrix where to go it would make more sense that either or both of the addon websites would simply come together and tell them to fix their authorship acknowledgements rather than boycott them. Furthermore, it is more to your cause that should WoWMatrix tell you to stuff it (something not in their interest obviously) both groups SHOULD have working out of the box solutions. Curse.com has an updater than will get about 1/4 of someone's addons whereas WoWInterface has an updater that you need to spend an hour with configuring JUST to get it to work. Between the two not every addon will be caught OR there will be unnecessary updating because of how either Author or Version is listed on either site.

Boycotting WoWMatrix, for whatever reason you want to come up with, is nothing more than posturing. If authors were truly upset about their addons on their they could have easily hit CONTACT US on their program and filed a complaint asking for credit for the addon or removal of it. Since when did Curse.com and Wowinterface.com become the Teamsters of WoW addons?

Bouvi · 04-20-09, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Nazagthrall

Boycotting WoWMatrix, for whatever reason you want to come up with, is nothing more than posturing. If authors were truly upset about their addons on their they could have easily hit CONTACT US on their program and filed a complaint asking for credit for the addon or removal of it. Since when did Curse.com and Wowinterface.com become the Teamsters of WoW addons?

If you bothered to read anything you would know they tried to work with them and it has more to do with bandwidth issues.

Reading is fundamental.

Zyonin · 04-20-09, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Nazagthrall

Boycotting WoWMatrix, for whatever reason you want to come up with, is nothing more than posturing. If authors were truly upset about their addons on their they could have easily hit CONTACT US on their program and filed a complaint asking for credit for the addon or removal of it. Since when did Curse.com and Wowinterface.com become the Teamsters of WoW addons?

Umm, I don't know if you have read any threads regarding WoWMatrix and author's requesting removal. However I will give you the basics:

- Authors have asked for mods to be removed from WoWMatrix
- WoWMatrix has proven to be quite stubborn when it comes to getting mods removed.
- Often when the mods were "removed" they were removed from the WM website list but not from the updater itself.
- It takes repeated requests to get a mod removed from the website list.

Donnaterassi · 04-20-09, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Rendus

Guild portals. Funny stuff.

It's either this, or send each of a hundred guildmates here searching for updates to, say, FuBar. Have you tried searching for just the base FuBar addon here lately?

Modules that haven't been updated since 2006 show up in the default search.

You are wicked funny Rend! Are you sure we're not cousins?

Donnaterassi · 04-20-09, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Tristanian

Then let them find replacements. This is not a popularity contest and the Earth will keep spinning if users in that category don't use our addons. I will even go on a limb and state that said users do not deserve any kind of support in my eyes. I would suspect that others may feel the same way.

Well I am relieved to know that you are not among those wonderfully creative minds which I help to support. Because I can't support you.

lenne · 04-20-09, 01:12 PM

It is sad that because of wowinterface and curse cannot compete in user-interface that it must lock out wowmatrix

Wowinterface and curse complain about high bandwith usage.

What is needed then, is a peer2peer-client to help distribute the load.

It would be good if this peer2peer client also could be set up to peer in localnet; I have 4 machines for the wow-playing family.

It would be nice if I could set up the client to share add-ons and even better wow-patches, so I don't have to download everything 4 times. Yes, I know I could move manually, but it's not convenient.

Tekkub · 04-20-09, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by lenne

It would be good if this peer2peer client also could be set up to peer in localnet; I have 4 machines for the wow-playing family.

It would be nice if I could set up the client to share add-ons and even better wow-patches, so I don't have to download everything 4 times. Yes, I know I could move manually, but it's not convenient.

Use uTorrent to download your patches, there are always torrent links up on wowwiki's patch mirrors page. If you use it on each local computer and set them up correctly (not sure how the defaults are), uTorrent will look for local downloaders and give them higher priority and bandwidth. So *ideally* you'll only have to download a single copy the patch across all your computers and they'll share amongst themselves.

Bittorrent was looked at a bit for the bandwidth issue, but being that addon files are generally so small it didn't have much benefit. BT's designed for large files, and that's where it shines.

Donnaterassi · 04-20-09, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Rendus

I hope people will at least consider (or reconsider) why they release addons in the first place - To be used. I tried more addons because they looked interesting in WowMatrix than I've ever bothered with across WOWI and Curse and WoWAce and CT and so on combined.

Most of them sucked.

Amen.

But I did find 112 that rock!
Can you imagine how many I've actually tried?!
Flat Boggles the mind!

Vyper · 04-20-09, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Donnaterassi

Amen.

But I did find 112 that rock!
Can you imagine how many I've actually tried?!
Flat Boggles the mind!

heh... do much gravedigging?

ScytheBlade1 · 04-20-09, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Shirik

On a more practical side, all ads disappear from this site as well as on the wowi updater when it is released. As far as how those benefits extend to other sites, I can't say with 100% confidence right now so I will leave that to someone else.

Yeah that too.

Tristanian · 04-20-09, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Cairenn

Bug Grabber, XPerl and Decursive are all released with under GPL, so WM can host them on their servers if they want to.

I can't find any license on Titan, though, (which means that it's fully copyrighted "all rights reserved") so if they are hosting or distributing it, they are violating copyright. It may be that it has a GPL (or some other similar license) and I'm just not seeing it, in which case they are fine.

Titan is hosted on Google Code, so that's where WM is pulling from. Just checked, and it has 200k downloads in 5 days.

This is probably off-topic but I feel obligated to respond, as the lead author and member of the Titan Dev team.

The project for the "revival" of the addon after being abandoned for months by one of this original authors, back on November/December 2007 was initially intended as an open-source project, since at the time none of us had any experience whatsoever working with addons and no one was positive on whether we could pull it off or not. An open source project at the time would at least ensure the longevity of said addon.

A lot has transpired since then, the source code has been largely modified (up to the point where it resembles little what we had to work with originally), it has moved to the WoWI SVN repository and what is really left back on Google Code is the wiki, the ticketing system, who has served us well (and is continuing to do so) plus release (rar) distributions that we intentionally allowed, in order not to inconvenience any users that for some reason, did not want to visit the 'officially endorsed websites', in order to get their bacon...err I mean addon. Though most (if not all) of us are in agreement to the point that authors should have a right to control where and how their work is being distributed, we could never have imagined that all this would take place one day and we would actually have to 'restrict' the addon by issuing some sort of custom BSD license to accompany it. We opted to 'ignore' the incident and move on, even when our initial requests to WM to remove the addon from their lists have gone ignored, back in November.

The recent events have forced us to re-evaluate our decision in terms of licensing, in a way that is clear and cannot be disputed.

The jury is still out but for what is worth, our stance on the critical issues will most likely not change. For almost 2 years we have been supporting the addon and we have never charged (or even think of charging) for it, we have never solicited donations (directly or indirectly) and we will continue down that path, for as long as we can manage it. For us, coding is fun and a hobby (we try to listen to users and implement the stuff we can and will use ourselves, but we do not view this as a coding-on demand full time job), if someone else finds the addon useful, then well I guess that's a good thing. We however, will not tolerate disrespect, (directly or indirectly), especially when the people that have given us a 'home', so to speak, plus the tools to make tedious tasks easy, are getting hurt. All in all, we shall consider all the options available and decide what is best for our work.

</End Offtopic>

***Cairenn*** · 04-20-09, 05:06 PM

Tristanian

***Cairenn*** · 04-20-09, 05:07 PM

/me is in a

-y mood, in case no one noticed.

Bomyne · 04-20-09, 05:17 PM

Boycotting WoWMatrix, for whatever reason you want to come up with, is nothing more than posturing. If authors were truly upset about their addons on their they could have easily hit CONTACT US on their program and filed a complaint asking for credit for the addon or removal of it. Since when did Curse.com and Wowinterface.com become the Teamsters of WoW addons?

In the end, the servers being used to run Curse and WoWI belong to the leaders of those sites, and like Blizzard with the game, they can do whatever they like (with the sites :P). They decided to block WoWM. That is their right.

Cairenn:

=D

Bluspacecow · 04-20-09, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Donnaterassi

Just keep doing what you're doing. I am sure that this new generation of gold buying, node stealing, noob ganking players will remain loyal to you when they have to visit 112 separate site and down load 112 files and unzip 112 separate files and remove/replace 112 folders. I know I will.

Um.

Not.

Welcome to the discussion

You might want to read Seerah's post at

http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...&postcount=108

She says it far better than I can.

I would also like to point out that those 112 addon folders you mention ? They don't update every day. Once they are stable and working for you you should only need to update for major changes.

And not every one of those 112 addon folders will get update everyday.

Here's a real world example for you

There is 193 folders in my addons folder. Taking out mulitpart part addons that makes 160 I'm keeping track of regularly. Yes I count all the DBM and Auctioneer ones as 2 addons because well I download 2 zips. DBM unzips to 18 addon folders but gets downloaded in 1 zip. Thusly I treat it as 1 addon not 18 in my "this is how many addons I use count"

I get around 22 emails in around a week to 10 days about those 160 addons. It takes me 8 - 12 minutes to scan through them all , load up 6 or 7 pages in a tabbed browser and download maybe 4.

And even then. Once week is still too often. I could reasonably only update every 2 weeks or even once per month. I only do it each week because I actually enjoy seeing what's changed and how often the authors of my addons submit changes.

Once again. My UI is stable. Not blowing chuncks everywhere or coming with weird or arcane messages. This is why I can leave it for a month to update - if I wait for a month to update and my UI is perfectly stable it's not going to cause any problems.

Of course there is a collorary to my statement here. What if one of my addons breaks or causes a problem for me ? Well in that case I'll be doing my level best to get it working for me. It can start with a bug addon report and can possibly end with me turfing that addon for good. And even if I spend a few hours trying to get it working I only have to do it once. Then it's back to my usaul schedule of updating once per week

Bluspacecow · 04-20-09, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Nazagthrall

Well, first and foremost is personal profit. It has little to do with individual recognition as long as the collective interest of WoWInterface.com and Curse.com are given a chance to get their just deserves.

Volunteer effort. So yeah they have to pay for the website somehow. Or do servers run on sunshine and rainbows ?

No.

They need money.

Money that was being generated each time you opened the page and addon is on.

No moneys to pay for bandwidth or 'lectrics == No more Curse or Wowinterface.

No more Curse or Wowinterface == Less places for WM to pull updates to addons from

See where I'm going here?

Personally I'm glad they're not out on the streets begging for cash to keep the servers running ....

Originally Posted by Nazagthrall

It seems to be that instead of telling WoWMatrix where to go it would make more sense that either or both of the addon websites would simply come together and tell them to fix their authorship acknowledgements rather than boycott them. Furthermore, it is more to your cause that should WoWMatrix tell you to stuff it.....

Hai you must new to this discussion

Read http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...&postcount=108 Please.

Thing is they tried working with them. They tried contacting them. Kaelten has been talking with them over several months. They never gave responded to the wow interface crew. I really don't understand how the admins for Curse and Wow interface can stay up late every night , have busy jobs but still have the time to sit down and fire off an email. Some people I know personally may even be even busier than the wow matrix crew still have time to sit down a formulate an email.

This near complete silence on their end speaks a lot to how much they care does it not ?

Originally Posted by Nazagthrall

If authors were truly upset about their addons on their they could have easily hit CONTACT US on their program and filed a complaint asking for credit for the addon or removal of it.

And Authors have done that. And WM ignore them until hits with DMCA letters. Or even worse remove it from the website but a few days later is available again through the client. They told one author his mods had been removed. He then downloaded the WM client and lo and behold was able to download his mods through there. Even tho they said it had been removed.

LittleWhiteDove · 04-20-09, 10:35 PM

Note to Donnaterassi - From your signature "Does this bother anyone else as much as it bothers me? The owners of WoWInterface reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason."

The fact that they can does not bother me as much as you signature comment does. Your stressing of the word edit would seem to be implying that the WoWInterface forum moderators are editing posts to suit what they want people to see or read. Since every edit shows who edited it and when, I am very sure that type of behavior from anyone associated with WoWInterface would have long ago been brought to light and they would not be as respected by the community as they are.

I note that you have just registered on the site and wonder if you are just looking to vent or if you are out to try and create a problem where none exist. Either way I personally find your implication offensive.