Would you use a membership-based MazzleUI site?

[Mazzlefizz]

So, the truth of the matter is that I quit my guild a few weeks ago, stopped raiding and barely play now. I've actually already canceled my recurring subscriptions on both of my accounts. That said, I'd hate to abandon a project which I've put so much time in. I've had this idea proposed to me many times in the past and have rejected it, but, now that things have changed for me, it seems like the only attractive option.

I'm thinking about making a membership-based, MazzleUI site. Rather than using donations, there would be a monthly fee to be a member of the site. In exchange, members would get:

• At least one finalized new version of MazzleUI per month that would contain new features, updates and bug fixes. These features are MazzleUI-specific items, not new features from add-ons included.
• Interim beta versions when applicable. Quick-fixes for patches.
• Better support. Hopefully, it will be easier since membership would help avoid a lot of the drive-by questions that new users who don't read documentation often post.

With such reliable compensation, I'd maintain my accounts and would have good reason to spend consistent time improving things. I'd expect the cost to be around $5-$10 per month. I know this will not be an attractive option to many people, and I can certainly understand why; there are countless, free options out there. But if there are people enough who value MazzleUI over those options and would be willing to support something like this, this might be a viable way for me to continue the project even if I'm no longer playing WoW.

So, the question is, how many of you be willing to join such a site? Please answer in the poll embedded in this thread.

EDIT: Restarted thread based on suggestion of a price less than subsciption fee, which makes sense.

[Geboran]

Business is business. You can always "make" time towards a project that generates revenue vs. one that was done (originally) for pure enjoyment of doing so and getting satisfaction from that.

I doubt that a subscription-based site would help with the questioning... but at least you'd have more motivation to address items with some extra coin in your pocket from people willing to support the endeavor.

The WoW subscription monthly fee seems high for me, but I would think that $5-$8/month would be fair -- so long as the updates/fixes came fairly quickly. Monthly releases seem pretty nice, all in all.

Oh… and have you ever thought about transferring servers and starting “anew”? Just a thought. Might help “rekindle” the fun that WoW used to be…..

[Arkive]

For me, I would, because in my mind, time = money. To elaborate on that, if I had one character, I'd do my own UI, but I have 6 characters over lvl 60, and my wife has quite a few herself. With that number of individual UI's to maintain, the time MazzleUI saves me is worth something. I'm not sure how long I'd stick with it, but given the unique features already included in Mazzle, I'd give it a few months for sure to see what comes of it. There's only two issues I fear would come of this. One is that the UI wouldn't be out there for folks to try, and someone who hasn't used it is likely to not fork over dough for it, which leaves you with your current subscriber base, which will dwindle over time. How are you going to maintain the revenue stream as people who are currently paying for it leave so the financial motivation to keep the project going is still there? Maybe a public release every now and then to draw in new users? The other is, I worry some people are going to get their hands on it and leak it on the web, people will download it from there, which will leave you frustrated and saying to hell with it.

[Layrajha]

First of all, I'm not a user of your UI work. I gather my addons and mod them, adding some few own-build addons if necessary. I'm therefore giving an objective view on the problem, as I'm not interested in it.

I kinda understand how you feel about leaving your work "un-complete" (even if it looks quite complete already, there are still things that you've thought it would be nice to add, etc...). But the thing is that for the member that would subscribe, even if it looks like a small amount, it's comparable to the fee to play the game. I mean that if you're paying a monthly 70% of WoW's fee for your UI, you somehow consider that either WoW is underpriced and could really be more expensive, or that 35% of your entertainment comes from your UI.
I have myself a lot of fun changing my UI and coding random stuff, but would many people agree? Especially as, whatever you do, there will still be ways to download your work from other sites, as members might give this UI to a friend of them that asks for it, which might once again give it to someone else etc. I'm not sure if you were planing to restrict the DL to members, or only the support, but I think that restricting the DL is impossible and restricting the support might be of low interest for the subscribers.

So what I would advise is to give a life-time membership instead, for maybe $15-$20 (I have no real idea how many people would like that though). More people would probably subscribe then. It would still be the same kind of people as those who made donations (I mean, if people just want to steal the addon, even with no knowledge in anything, they can install emule or a torrent client), but it would be more fair for them.

I'm not too sure what you'll think about that, but that's what I would go for if I were you (unless there's something I missed, of course).

And...
Good luck whatever you do there and IRL anyway


Edit:
The poll has no "I don't use Mazzle UI even if I wouldn't push it in a fire just for getting attention" ^^

[Mazzlefizz]

Originally Posted by Geboran Oh… and have you ever thought about transferring servers and starting “anew”? Just a thought. Might help “rekindle” the fun that WoW used to be…..

Nah, not really. For me it's based on friends and having a good, mature well-run guild. Unfortunately, I think it's just too hard to find the latter item when you don't know anything about what's really happening on other servers. The game is also getting old and repetitive to me.

I've actually started playing LOTRO, and it's a lot of fun. Graphics are gorgeous (realism is more my thing), the lore is more compelling, and I'm really enjoying learning the new mechanics and exploring things. It really does feel like WoW did in the beginning. The big downside is that it has NO MODS and no scripting interface. They say that they're looking to change that in the future, but right now there's nothing.

[Arkive]

As a response to what Layrajha suggested, I would probably not participate with a "lifetime" memebership option, even if it appeared cheaper in the long run. From a business standpoint, handing over money for support of something for as long as I plan to use it (not how long THEY plan to use it) to someone who has already epxressed a deep disconnect with the content is asking for trouble in a few months when the same lack of motivation is present once again. A subscription would at least keep that motivation active.

[stec]

I would pay this without a doubt, i need mazzle its the most reliable package ive ever used, with the best support ive ever recieved also.

I hope you do stay with wow, ive not tried lotro because i dont want to yet, i will eventually but even then il stcik with the membership for mazzle, because id like to see it implemented over at lotr lol.

[joive]

I'm In. Honestly I think is the best for everybody. Only one thing, can you make the Membership (or whatever other way) Payment Method available with Paypal? I'm going in anyway, but for me and for many others, having Paypal as an option to pay is a great convenience.

The results of the Poll can go either way (that doesn't need to influence much on your final decision). Just go ahead with this idea and you'll see everybody will be happy at the end. This will grow bigger than you think.

For me, for many reasons, this is good news.

Thanks!

[MidgetMage55]

I think it's a great idea even if i don't use it though i did try it out and was duly impressed. Unfortunately i cant agree with the 3 possible vote choices so ill just pencil in:


4) Great idea! It's a shame i haven't accepted the divinity of the Mazzle UI as my WoW savior. Subcribe or perish!

[Flarin]

I would consider this. However I think the sticking point you "may" have is with the developers of the addons that are in your collection. Would their permission be needed because you are making, in small part, money from their labor.

[muxenle]

If you do want to charge I think that mabey you should also make a free version with less stuff in it because there are people who will not be able to afford the monthly cost simply because they are kids with no money and are playing on accounts that there parents pay for/parents acount which is the case for me and I would hate to loss Mazzle UI.

[Seerah]

Managing two UIs is twice as much work. I think you're missing the point.

[Ringleron]

Originally Posted by Seerah Managing two UIs is twice as much work. I think you're missing the point.

Hehe... Well, it could be twice the work.. but, if Mazzlefizz organizes the coding in "on-off" sections, create the "free" version would be just removing certain blocks of code here and there.

But, what about the paying people sharing their MazzleUI addon to others?

Additionally, in the past Blizzard said something about the Mazzlegasm option (which caused 1.01 to appear), would other addon developers also ask for subscriptions (kinda like what Flarin said)?

[Layrajha]

Originally Posted by Flarin I would consider this. However I think the sticking point you "may" have is with the developers of the addons that are in your collection. Would their permission be needed because you are making, in small part, money from their labor.

If they release their addon in GNU's GPU liscence (as I'll now try to do), you don't have to even let them know it. You can do almost what you want. Read http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt for more info.
Though, I don't know how it goes for people who don't specify anything.

Edit:
o_O Mazzlefizz voted "No, I don't use MazzleUI, and I hope it dies in a fire for all the undeserved attention it gets."

[Mazzlefizz]

Originally Posted by Layrajha Edit: o_O Mazzlefizz voted "No, I don't use MazzleUI, and I hope it dies in a fire for all the undeserved attention it gets."

Well, I wanted to see the stats without being prompted to vote, so I thought it would be more amusing than voting in the other two real areas. I am enjoying seeing other people vote in that area too.

[Gemini_II]

Originally Posted by Ringleron Additionally, in the past Blizzard said something about the Mazzlegasm option (which caused 1.01 to appear)

Actually several users who hated the Mazzlegasm thing asked about it, and one of the lead programmers on the forums posted the code to disable the Mazzlegasm. Somone posted that as a mod, and that's the end of that story.


But touching on what Layrajha mentioned, is what first came to mind when I saw this thread... the legalities.

I've tried searching for some concrete info on this but I'm having a hard time. LUA itself uses the MIT license (clicky) which allows derivative work compiled from LUA to be fee-based if the author chooses. GNU allows for similar structures. I'm trying to figure out where Blizz's legalities begin and end concerning LUA for WoW.

One thing for sure, is that if any author of any mod inside MazzleUI disagreed, Mazzle would have to remove it, as they would have authority being the intellectual copyright holder.

I'll delve some more and see what I can uncover. I didn't vote btw since the option I'd pick isn't there, and being a compilation author, I didn't want to appear biased.

[Mazzlefizz]

Well, this would be for access to the site. I would not be selling the software. I think this has been discussed ad nauseum in the Blizzard forums back when RDX decided to something similar.

[Gemini_II]

Originally Posted by Mazzlefizz Well, this would be for access to the site. I would not be selling the software. I think this has been discussed ad nauseum in the Blizzard forums back when RDX decided to something similar.

That would alter the question of legalities for sure. I tried searching the Blizz forums but their Search feature is disabled (again). In that case a good question is about subscribers re-distributing the MazzleUI. I'll see what other official stuff I can find and otherwise keep quite and troll to see what others have to say.

[tardmrr]

Originally Posted by Mazzlefizz Well, this would be for access to the site. I would not be selling the software. I think this has been discussed ad nauseum in the Blizzard forums back when RDX decided to something similar.

The difference is that RDX was selling his code-- not mine. I take offence at you wanting money for a compilation of addons written by other people, and should this go live, I would request my addons be removed from the pack. The fact that you expect to be paid for your "work" is ludicrous. If you expect sympathy from me for not getting the amount of donations you expected (and as a result, want to force users to pay) then you will be sadly disappointed. Open source software isn't about making money; it's about writing software because it's fun and giving back to the community. Don't try to leach from the community by selling it's own addons back to them.

Edit: Before we get into legalities, I hold the copyright on my addons. With that, I chose who distributes them. Period.

[stec]

Originally Posted by tardmrr The difference is that RDX was selling his code-- not mine. I take offence at you wanting money for a compilation of addons written by other people, and should this go live, I would request my addons be removed from the pack. The fact that you expect to be paid for your "work" is ludicrous. If you expect sympathy from me for not getting the amount of donations you expected (and as a result, want to force users to pay) then you will be sadly disappointed. Open source software isn't about making money; it's about writing software because it's fun and giving back to the community. Don't try to leach from the community by selling it's own addons back to them. Edit: Before we get into legalities, I hold the copyright on my addons. With that, I chose who distributes them. Period.

Mazzle isnt saying he wants to sell your "CODE" as part of his pack, the subscription to the "site" (not addons or compilations) is for his support with a package he put together, all beit yes with a few other artists addons. Basically hes offering his time and support to anyone who has problems with the current mazzle version or future versions and i dont think its wrong of him to be paid for what obviously sometimes seems more like a job than anything else. You need to remember he isnt forcing anybody to subscribe to the site, Which hasnt even been implemented yet, You have a choice wether you choose to use this or not so its down to the community if they pay or not.