PTR Patch 3.2.0 User Interface Notes

[tinyu]

that might have actually been the first mod ported to default interface.

[ffxiedyn]

I suppose the point I was trying to impress with my original post was this:

I personally do not believe that Blizzard had or has any malicious intent when they designed World of Warcraft to be able to use addons.

I do believe that they wished to give the mmo public a game that was a bit more player involved on a level not yet widely available, albeit knowing with some certainty that it would result in a hit game for them.

The simple fact that no one is forced to create an addon, nor use an addon, but an option of the game, not only in all probability will never change, (it is now the defining attribute of a 5 year old mmo) is a clear indication of any addon authors choice to freely add to the game and then freely share this addition.

In all honesty, not one addon (in its original form) would be able to be used outside of Blizzards game, so for Blizzard to incorporate something freely made/shared for the game they own, was an action that was not unforeseeable.

Every addon author made a choice to tinker with World of Warcraft and then share it with a community that loved using the additions to World of Warcraft, all without ever demanding that Blizzard hire them for their time and work, or acknowledgment of their ideas.

I am still unclear as to what the authors are upset over when Blizzard incorporates the additions to World of Warcraft.

[Verissi]

Originally Posted by ffxiedyn I am still unclear as to what the authors are upset over when Blizzard incorporates the additions to World of Warcraft.

My personal observation is that it's more the players rather than the authors that get upset when this happens. From the posts that I've seen about the subject over the years, they feel that Blizzard's time is better spent doing other things (PvP balance, instances, other content, etc.) and that they were generally happy enough with addons as they were. As discussed before, content creation and base UI changes aren't as mutually exclusive as many seem to believe, though.

Whether or not Blizzard incorporates current addons' functionality into their default UI is inconsequential to me as an author. They often leave enough room to extend/customise what they do incorporate, as well as lots of addons' ideas that they still haven't even tried to bring to the default interface. To me, they provide basic functionality in the default interface, which has changed over the years. What was once considered "nice to have" is now expected functionality. If the players want more (or authors) than what Blizzard provides, they are free to customise their own interface further. As an example, I already have several ideas for the new totem bar and some test code written for it. If Blizzard decides to fold some of the suggestions into the totem bar that I had planned on writing for myself, I honestly don't care; it saved me some work and I still get what I want out of the bar

[voodoodad]

I agree with Verissi's point. I don't really care if Blizz integrates addon functionality into the default ui, but I would like to see more new and improved content. It's a substance over style issue, at least for me.

[Bruners]

To everyone that thinks Blizzard should focus more on content....
Blizzard has a shiny crew of people that's "only" job is to adjust, support and make new interface additions, the same people are not involved with making new content other than fixing the interface to work with any new content that comes from the "content factory".

[ffxiedyn]

I was asking because I remember a while back when WoW implemented an Equipment Manager to its default UI, that an addon author became so upset, he decided to retract his personal addon from the WoW player base. (which he has now re released, if I am not mistaken)

And this thread to me, has a slight animosity as well about new UI elements being added in the upcoming WoW patch.

I was curious as to the reasoning behind the anger.

Thanks.

[tinyu]

personally when blizzard incorporate a mod into the default Interface most times the blizz version is alot worse than the mod version, case in point Floating Combat Text and the new Gear Manager.

[TazRulez]

Originally Posted by ffxiedyn I was asking because I remember a while back when WoW implemented an Equipment Manager to its default UI, that an addon author became so upset, he decided to retract his personal addon from the WoW player base. (which he has now re released, if I am not mistaken)

The addon author stopped publicly sharing his addon due to Blizzard's policy about asking for donations or charging for addons. It had nothing to do with the Equipment Manager being implemented. And yes, he did re-release his addon to the public again.

[nonameform]

AFAIK, addon authors can't ask for donations inside WoW. They still can do so on addon site/page and even Minion had "Donate" button, so I don't really see why people get pissed off because of that change to the policy.

When I started playing WoW, I knew that addons existed, but I was more interested in the game then in UI tweaking. At about lvl 30 on my first char I've already downloaded some addons such as Auctioneer, Gatherer and QuestHelper. At about lvl 60 I had installed Omen and many other addons that greatly enhanced the UI or added some functions that weren't in the default interface.

If I had to start with many of those addons from day one, I would probably quit game pretty fast because it would be to complex. Now that I'm familiar with most things WoW default interface can offer, I replace most of it with addons.

I was pretty excited when Equipment Manager was announced as I've never tried any addons of that type before. After using it for a week or two, I disabled it and got the proper equipment addon, which is more intuitive and less crappy (sorry, but the default one is really bad in my opinion).

Now that there is a built in threat meter in the game, people might learn about threat before they hit 80, go into heroics and start dying on every pull because of overaggroing (at least I hope some of the curious new players will enable that function in the menu). When I got to lvl 70 on my first char and some of the folks in the guild already started raiding Karazhan, I saw guild leader saying stuff that everyone should get Omen. Believe it or not, hardly half of the raid knew a thing about threat when doing their first raid.

Also I have installed older WoW versions (vanilla WoW to be precise) and I must say I like how the minimap has changed since then. I didn't bother to play for long, but the basic WoW interface you have now is still much better than it used to be back when WoW was still a new game.

Yes, I would love to see some more changes made to the default interface, because if I have to use less addons, it will free some memory for the actual game. I totally love DoubleWide addon, but if Blizzard makes new quest log look very similar to it, I will stop using the addon.

Fishing needs some tweaking too in my opinion. Since I've started using Fishing Buddy, I can't fish using default WoW button as it just too tedious. Implementing double right-click casting would make this profession a little bit more enjoyable for the majority of players in my opinion.

[Verissi]

Originally Posted by nonameform Fishing needs some tweaking too in my opinion. Since I've started using Fishing Buddy, I can't fish using default WoW button as it just too tedious. Implementing double right-click casting would make this profession a little bit more enjoyable for the majority of players in my opinion.

The double right-click casting is handy, but fishing is just downright tedious for most of my friends, and I can sympathise (I hold the realm-first fishing achievement and have four other 450 fishermen, so I definitely understand). Fishing needs a complete overhaul and really needs to become more interactive and interesting. The latest round of changes has helped it become easier to raise skill, but it's still just mindless clicking. Don't get me wrong, I love the profession and find it relaxing, but I recognise that it could use more "fun factor" before it will appeal to more people.

Sorry for the slight derailment. I'm a bit passionate about fishing and companion pet collecting

[Bluspacecow]

Ok ok looks like this thread is getting derailed with off topic stuff

Back on topic : Built in Blizzard debug tools

Looks like they've put some fairly decent debugging tools in the default set of Blizzard addons now.

/eventtrace will bring up a box showing what events have been firing
/framestack will bring up a floating box giving info of w/e frame its above
/reload will do the usaull

Not sure what /dump does but the commands i've given above are pretty useful - I've been able to help an addon author or 2 by reading out the output to them on IRC

Mechanics of CastRandom changed

In build 10048 there's a few new functions governing how the CastRandom macro feature works to make it not so random. More details here :

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...34516&sid=1#12

Lastly there's been a new diff file from 10026 to 10048. More details in the wowace thread in the first post.

[Raging_Sage]

Wow, I can't believe some of you are so naive. Even some who agree that it's okay that Blizzard adopts popular addons think it's some kind of benevolent afterthought! Blizzard knew EXACTLY what they were doing from DAY 1 with WoW, in designing into the game the ability to use third-party addons. The WHOLE REASON they allow them at all is so they can get the public community to do the bulk of the UI modification/tweaking/testing. That way, the game can still evolve, keeping players (i.e. paying subscribers) happy, but at little or no development cost to Blizzard themselves.

You get to use as few or as many mods as you want to, or that your system can run simultaneously. They know the most popular addons in use have features that a good percentage of their subscribers like and/or use. Then they can decide if it's worth adding those mods into the default UI for the masses who play but don't want to mess with dozens and dozens of addons. (Always keeping in mind some reasonable common denominator as far as system requirments go, to allow the game to be playable on as many computers as possible to maximize their world-wide revenue.)

It's a brilliant business model for this sort of game, and really it's a win-win for everyone. Lots of software companies do this sort of thing, where users do a lot of the after-release modifications or beta-testing, etc. Blizzard has always done this with WoW, and IMO always will until the game dies and it's replaced by something bigger and better. Then it will start all over again in that next-gen game.

A comment on what some are calling "borrowing" code. Um, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Blizzard already OWN all of the UI code that is executed on any of their game servers anyway, regardless of the recent update to the addon policy? Blizzard owns it, but it's "free" for anyone to use as long as doing so doesn't violate the Wow ToU or EULA? If individual authors owned their code, then they'd be selling mods outright, and suing others who created variations of their original mods. But that happens all of the time, where people take over other authors' abandoned mods. Then, when Blizzard does incorporate an addon into the default UI, I'll bet most authors ARE flattered, even if a little saddened at the same time. But a lot of the time, the default functionality isn't as awesome as the mod itself is/was, and there's normally an opportunity to continue the mod for those who want the extra features. I know it has to be frustrating when Blizzard changes the API, and all of the sudden certain functions change or are disallowed. But it just goes with the territory, doesn't it?

Speaking of the new addons policy, what's the big deal anyway? An author *should* know what the rules are before they write and load in their mod. If you are an author and don't like the policy, then don't write mods. The prohibition against advertisements and soliciting donations just applies to IN-GAME. An author can still ASK for donations, or show advertisements, on their web site. They just can't charge for the mod, or for downloading it, etc. I don't know about anyone else, but I've never PAID for a mod thus far, so what's new?

MUCH ADO OVER VERY LITTLE IMO.

[voodoodad]

Above post made possible by a grant from the Wally O. Text foundation.

[Petrah]

Originally Posted by Raging_Sage blah blah blah blah blah blah

Policy discussion thread is thatta way ------>

[Bluspacecow]

*ugh* more off topic posts. I've half a mind to get Seerah or some other mod move all those posts to the UI policy discussion thread.

Not that they haven't been good posts and I do value a good discussions on things....

It's just they aren't relevant to the topic we are discussing which is API changes in addons for 3.2

[nonameform]

It went off-topic at post #5 where word "borrow" was first introduced to the thread. Kind of hard to resist not to continue the trend at post #51.

And I can't say that word was used out of context, since after reading "Quest creatures and objects will now show on the player's world map" I keep thinking that Blizzard is trying to introduce QuestHelper functionality into standard UI. We have already seen tooltips that show for which quest you need to kill mob/collect item, so the next step was to remove need for addons that will also tell you where exactly those mobs/items can be found in the world. Don't know how good it will be implemented, but still it's a step for UI and might help new players get their quests done faster.

Most of those UI changes make me think of some addons that already have those functions, so I don't really understand why discussing "borrowing" is off-topic. What else to discuss here?

Those new UI commands might be very useful for addon authors, but this topic is in general discussion and I'm not an addon author. Can't really care less about them. Excited about the changes to UI as a simple WoW user, want to see them in action.

[Bluspacecow]

Originally Posted by nonameform Most of those UI changes make me think of some addons that already have those functions, so I don't really understand why discussing "borrowing" is off-topic. What else to discuss here?

I find the talk about "borrowing" is off topic as Blizzard does it for every patch that comes out. It's not new and it's really relevant to the title of the thread which is "PTR Patch 3.2.0 User Interface Notes". There were a few posts here that aren't really directly relevant to the changes in the UI in 3.2.

They could of been copied and pastied into say the "Curse & WoWI defend authors thread" and they would of been more relevant there.

Originally Posted by nonameform Those new UI commands might be very useful for addon authors, but this topic is in general discussion and I'm not an addon author. Can't really care less about them. Excited about the changes to UI as a simple WoW user, want to see them in action.

I don't happen to agree.

I think this thread will be useful to the addon authors who seek help in updating their addons.

I don't believe that having a seperate thread for addon authors to discuss the changes in the API is useful as it means the casual user will at the very least get informed about changes in their addons that might effect them. That and there is 2 other threads I linked in one of my first posts here that will suit that purpose just as well.

[Jeaz]

Originally Posted by Torhal They've been doing this for years. One of the earliest things they borrowed from the community was the concept of Main Tank, which originated with CT_Raid. Around 2.4, they added friends notes, etc etc.

I'm sorry mate, but the concept of Main Tank was hardly something invented by CT_Raid.


But, lets not forget all: There were no Raid UI frames at all in WoW until 1.6. Well, except for the ones you could access through the Social options.

[ffxiedyn]

If no one has posted a relevant reply since post#5, and this thread is now 3 pages long...

Creating a new thread to move all the irrelevant posts to so this thread could have its 5 relevant posts...

Ok.. if you really want to ^_^

And sorry to bug people with a discussion in the wrong thread, see you all in the new thread!

Thanks.

[SDPhantom]

Most, if not all the rants I see in this thread were posted by normal players, while all the addon authors commend Blizzard for incorporating ideas brought on by various addons.

Most of the time, these actions provide additions to the API that lighten the load on client systems when dealing with gathering and manipulating data needed for the use of such addons.

Take the new threat API added in with the 3.0 patch. This was handled by a specific Threat lib used by different addons like Omen. The matter of data collection, manipulation, and synchronization, was all ported over to WoW's C code. This was much more efficient and accurate than any addon code could be. Instead of an addon trying to gather damage and healing done while trying to apply talents to come up with a number resembling a player's threat level, WoW's API can just look at the mob's aggro table.

Even though Blizzard never completed their built-in threat meter, the changes to the API took a burden off of many authors' shoulders, including my own, and many other changes opened up possibilities, letting addons do what was previously impossible.