In-game Thottbot Browser

[mrbrdo]

It is no minor thing. This application is closed-source and it will remain so until i decide otherwise. It's not the first application that is closed-source, nor it is the last and it's not the end of the world. For godness sake, Windows is closed-source, so why don't you skip to Linux? It's just a thing every programmer has to decide for himself and it's my decision to make, not yours to judge. It is not me being rude if i don't want to give my source code away, as 90% of applications made for Windows are closed-source anyway. So think before you judge me. Also, "Jorrit Jongma" contributed his code when i started making this application (he did the same thing for another MMORPG), and i cannot release any source code, even if I wanted to (which i don't), without his approval.

Oh i forgot to read the second page... Well, do you really have a legit version of Delphi, the KOL library, DirectX9 headers for Delphi and MadShi CodeHook library? Because if you don't, i don't see what you could do with my code.. You can look trough it, sure, but how will you know that is the code i used to compile the final exe? The only way is for you to compile it and use your exe and dll instead of mine... For which you need legit apps of course.

Oh one more thing, about submitting accounts.. You could hex edit the executables and dll file and you would see that WinSock and\or Wininet is not used at all. I don't see any other options for submitting the accounts anywhere. I don't think the IE ActiveX control supports sending any special data (except forms filled with user input), but i could be wrong...

[Kaelten]

No offense again, but poor comparison.

Microsoft == Multi-billion dollar International Corporation who would have hell to pay if their code did something bad.

You == Guy who posted on a forum two days ago who could just disappear if theirs did something bad.


The same can go for a great deal of closed source software.
In addition, any of the small outfits that write closed source applications can go through the same inherent mistrust or at least trepidation.

I'm not judging you for keeping your source closed. That's your decision. However in the wow addon community people don't, as a general rule, like installing exes and many will never do so unless they have read the source or the source has been read/wrote by someone they trust.



I apologize if we’re the first to apprise you of this condition. That is just the way the average member of this community is.

[Kaelten]

Originally Posted by mrbrdo I don't think the IE ActiveX control supports sending any special data (except forms filled with user input), but i could be wrong...

You could simply use html to make the ie control send data to any website.

[mrbrdo]

Sorry, but I don't see it happening... I can't really trust you with the code, as i don't really know you. As i've said, misuse of the code could lead to game hacking, account stealing being one of the options too, yep. I understand your situation, but you should understand mine also. I will not send the source code to anyone, even if that leads to not publishing the application, which i am very sorry to hear, since it took over a month to complete everything.

Kaelten: I guess you are right, I never tried it though.

[Kaelten]

I'm sorry to hear that, unfortunately we are in a conundrum and have to stick with our policies as well, for much the same reasons you have listed.

[Gello]

Granted, I'm not entirely sure where Blizzard's policies would fall with this sort of thing, but purely from a technical standpoint, I could see the use. so although this particular application, viewing a web page, might not be all that useful, building a generalized tool to do this sort of thing could be.

They don't discuss policies often, but it would be frowned upon if it was done in the OP's method. Maybe not to a point to put it on Warden's watch list, but it would circumvent extreme effort on Blizzard's part.

There was no lua or xml at all in the original program. To get the slash command to work the program has likely modified/scanned the game client. Even something as roundabout and seemingly harmless as planting an entry in SlashCmdList that triggers an event seen by an outside polling program is bad. Simply adding a SlashCmdList entry with an executable is like breaking and entering. I have a hunch the program didn't go this route, and immediately thought of the alternatives when the OP mentioned the potential for abuse of his source.

Having an executable to start WoW is also bad karma. Cosmos' patcher does this and it's fine and legal, but the patcher only runs, then starts WoW and ends itself. It's a glorified .bat file. The executable in the original program likely stuck around to modify the game client.

Overlay programs like the teamspeak and winamp ones are fine since they don't touch the game client at all. They don't depend on WoW and don't even care about WoW running. A generalized tool should look in that direction. I'm sure we'll eventually see a top-level browser in some form, but to be legal it shouldn't add slash commands to the game and it should try not to require changing which executable starts WoW.

Source code revealed or not, I don't think this program belongs on a legitimate mod site.

[mrbrdo]

Also, you are mistaken in quite a lot of things. Firstly, the EXE program does not stay and run in the background at all. Secondly, i don't know what SlashCmdList is, the only thing i do is reroute the GetMessage API and check keyboard input before passing to the rest of the chain. And yes, i don't know if it's legal or not, probably it is not as far as the method of injection is concerned.. If it is possible to load a dll by script, please tell me about it and i'll be happy to give it a try. Then there will be no need for the exe file at all. Note that WoW.exe or any other World of Warcraft files do not get modified in any way. Only memory is patched. I would assume that the Winamp control program uses a similar method of injection.

cheers

[Gello]

Patching the client memory (modifying the client) is what makes it illegal. There are two type of winamp "mods" around:

One is mostly a conventional type of mod. It has lua/xml script that works in game. However it exploits a hole in the UI (key bindings) to save information in real time. A separate polling program watches for those changes and works winamp from there.

This method is being killed in 1.9 by Blizzard. The bindings-cache file will not update in realtime but only on reloads. They've done this many times for other holes like the config.wtf file and chat logs. They don't want mods interacting with outside programs in real time. It makes botting more accessable to the masses. The winamp mod that uses this does not modify the game client at all (patching its memory or hooking parts to an outside program).

The other winamp "mod" is a directx overlay program that sits as a top-level frame and has no relationship to WoW. This one is safe. It can run with or without WoW and is as legal as a calculator applet that runs as a toplevel frame.

Neither of these winamp mods patch client memory or alter the client as your program does. Blizzard doesn't want anyone injecting executable code into their game outside the scripting system that they gave us.

If the program can be modified so it's a window summoned by a global key and has no hooks or relationship to WoW, it'd likely be perfectly acceptable and probably a very successful program.

[mrbrdo]

Gello this is where you are wrong. If it is a DirectX overlay program then it is patching WoW's memory, much like XFire does, which is "legal" too btw. There is no other way to make something appear on top of an DirectX window, as far as i know (i've gone pretty deep into that while researching how to make this mod).

If you want proof of this, run XFire, run WoW.exe. You will see XFire works. Quit WoW.exe. Rename WoW.exe to for example WoWa.exe. Run WoWa.exe. XFire will no longer work. This is because XFire sets up a global hook and patches all games' memory it knows on startup. When you rename the main WoW executable, XFire will no longer recognise the game and will not patch it, thus XFire will no longer work in the game. This is also one of the reasons i will not release the source code, as someone could make something like XFire from it, with minor effort, and even sell it. I don't really see XFire being illegal, do you? It does essentially the same thing as my program, so why would my program be illegal then? Only difference is essentially, that XFire hooks keyboard input, while i hook mouse input aswell. But that makes no difference in legality terms..

[Gello]

That's interesting. I was under the impression that it hooked the DirectX API, sort of a specialized display driver. So xfire will only work on games that have been specifically programmed for it to work?

[coder_1024]

As opposed to going through all the hooking to intercept key events and to get your rendering overtop of the display, why not just run WoW in windowed mode and Alt-Tab to your web browser (or Email, or IM, or whatever)?

It seems to me there's a really, really, simpler solution to the problem of wanting to view thottbot while in game :-) All this back and forth about DLL injection, hooking, having closed-source EXEs run, etc. seems unnecessary.

[mrbrdo]

coder well, a matter of taste i guess.. i really hate alt-tabbing all the time, especially because it takes me at least 5 seconds before wow minimizes, and then at least 5 more until it maximizes again..

Gello: As far as i know, yes. The only specific thing it has to know about each game is it's executable name though. My application would work the same with Anarchy online, for example, i'd just have to edit the launcher to launch it's executable instead of WoW.exe.

I also made a screenshot for you to droll on =)

[coder_1024]

coder well, a matter of taste i guess.. i really hate alt-tabbing all the time, especially because it takes me at least 5 seconds before wow minimizes, and then at least 5 more until it maximizes again..

thats because you're running in full-screen mode. if you enable windowed mode, Alt-tab'ing is instant. WoW doesn't minimize in that case, your browser just pops up right over the game. See the below image. I always run in windowed mode now for that reason, I can switch around very quickly between WoW, explorer, my browser, my text editor, etc.

[mrbrdo]

that looks very nice.. you are running in windowed mode but it's still over the whole screen? how come? is the taskbar always visible like that?
You do know that 3d acceleration is better in full-screen mode, right? I think when it all started it wasn't even possible to run in windowed mode (didn't work).. also, my monitor is pretty small so i don't want to waste any space =P i like it very much the way i made it now, much more than alt tabbing.

[Kaelten]

I run 1600x1200 in maximized windowed mode. I get about 60-100 fps. I also do 1600x1200 on my desktop and so for me alt tabing has no lag at all.

[coder_1024]

that looks very nice.. you are running in windowed mode but it's still over the whole screen? how come? is the taskbar always visible like that?

The taskbar only shows up when you have another window in the front. When you alt-tab back to WoW, it goes away and you only see WoW. So, you simply switch over to your browser, do what you want, and then switch back.

You do know that 3d acceleration is better in full-screen mode, right? I think when it all started it wasn't even possible to run in windowed mode (didn't work)..

I've seen no performance loss with running in Windowed mode. Runs very nicely and allows me to instantly view whatever other windows I want. Perhaps it wasn't always this way, but it works very nicely now.

also, my monitor is pretty small so i don't want to waste any space =P

I haven't found this to be an issue, seeing as how you're not sitting at those other windows 100% of the time. you switch over to them briefly to see what you need and switch back.

i like it very much the way i made it now, much more than alt tabbing.

there's always personal preference, and your window overlay is very well done. it looks very clean. As a programmer I can appreciate what you've created. I just think that, in terms of the original problem at hand, running in windowed mode and alt-tab'ing is more than sufficient and avoids the hooking and DLL injection business and the need for an .exe.

I do find the technique of overlaying on top of DirectX very interesting. I wrote an open-source utility called TSDisp awhile back which uses the DLL injection/hooking to get itself into the TeamSpeak process and provides a stay-on-top window to show the name of the current speaker. I only went as far as just making a Windows stay-on-top window, though, so for DirectX fullscreen mode it doesn't work. Granted, when running in windowed mode it works. I wanted to dig around and figure out how to get the window on top of the DirectX display, but haven't taken the time to figure that out yet.

[tmcnabb]

Originally Posted by mrbrdo that looks very nice.. you are running in windowed mode but it's still over the whole screen? how come? is the taskbar always visible like that? You do know that 3d acceleration is better in full-screen mode, right? I think when it all started it wasn't even possible to run in windowed mode (didn't work).. also, my monitor is pretty small so i don't want to waste any space =P i like it very much the way i made it now, much more than alt tabbing.

I find it hard to believe a person that can write a program does not know that you can hide the start bar

2 cents ..keep the change

windowed mode covers at much space as you want it to ..you can run it at 800x600 even though your desktop is at lets say 1920x1200 .. it just makes a smaller reso. if you match them then yes it fills the whole screen. I think you can even hide the borders.

later

[coder_1024]

...that you can hide the start bar

I've never liked the task bar being auto-hidden, but you're right, if you enable that it doesn't show up. and, seeing as how you can get rid of a lot of the IE toolbars you don't need, you can get something which looks pretty decent and doesn't really take up extra screen space. See the updated screen below. The key is just turning on windowed mode in the WoW video settings.

[mrbrdo]

Originally Posted by tmcnabb I find it hard to believe a person that can write a program does not know that you can hide the start bar 2 cents ..keep the change windowed mode covers at much space as you want it to ..you can run it at 800x600 even though your desktop is at lets say 1920x1200 .. it just makes a smaller reso. if you match them then yes it fills the whole screen. I think you can even hide the borders. later

Windowed 3D applications don't USUALLY hide the taskbar, might you have noticed or not...

[coder_1024]

Windowed 3D applications don't USUALLY hide the taskbar

the task bar isn't visible unless you're alt-tab'd to another window. and you can avoid this, as I indicated above, by simply turning on the auto-hide taskbar feature in Windows. personally, though, I don't bother with that. If you are concerned about screen real estate, this would work for you.