Something I didn't quite get...

[Arkive]

Yea, it's pretty clear we're done here. But, I'll take the time to address a few points you made since you took the time to make them.

Originally Posted by Auralei Now, is another story, now I'm just amused. It's amazing to me that one person can be so self important that they would even consider yanking their compilation away from the public to avoid questions and the normal mundane issues. Also so self important to think that because they're done with WoW, the users of their compliation should PAY THEM.

Should he stop supporting it, it would reside on Wowinterface like any other outdated mod. People could still download it and search forum posts for answers to their questions. I wouldn't say "yanking" and "no longer supporting" are the same thing, but I suppose we use words that support our feelings on matters, so ok.

Originally Posted by Auralei I came in this thread by hearing about the other one from a guildmate, so I came to shed some bitter realities on this subject. That reality being that his UI can be copied, and likely will be if he goes this route, and that he's really only doing it to stick it to the public again.

Copied how? Byte for byte? Yea, I guess. Is it's function likely to be duplicated again on the level it is in this compilation? Given it's the only one of it's kind that I know of (I've been playing almost 2 years and modding my UI since day 1), it's possible, but unlikely.

He "stuck it to the public" in the past? Guess I missed that part as I was enjoying playing Warcraft instead of spending countless hours configuring my UI.

Originally Posted by Auralei If his treatment of the people that come to this site and seek his help were a bit lighter handed, maybe people wouldn't think he was a jerk deluxe.

I don't think anyone, including Mazzle, would dispute that he's been "short" on occasions. But I'll tell you this, as someone who manages a medium sized network and does a lot of work for my users that they don't see, and some of them (not all) choose to ignore the very few, and simple, requests I make of them...well yea, it can be frustrating. Some of us are better at concealing it then others, and perhaps if I wasn't paid to do so, I might have made a few comments of my own. But to respond directly to that, if you scan through the forums you'll be hard pressed to find a comment like the ones you're talking about that wasn't in response to a question the user would have known if they spent a small amount of effort reading the FAQ or known issues thread.

[Mazzlefizz]

lol, welcome back, Aurelai. As usual, you are grossly misinformed, but I've missed you anyway! Watch that blood pressure, sweetie!

[Auralei]

Originally Posted by Mazzlefizz lol, welcome back, Aurelai. As usual, you are grossly misinformed, but I've missed you anyway! Watch that blood pressure, sweetie!

I read the thread. As did a lot of others. But, yeah, I'm misinformed I'm sure.

[Mazzlefizz]

Aren't you just the cutest thing! I could eat you up.

Anyway, let's get back on topic. Smurfs! Remember grouchy smurf? He hated everything!

[mikma]

Everyone should be banned.

[Shadowed]

Auralei is pretty much spot on in what he's said actually Mazzlefizz.

[Industrial]

Selling addons or support for addons is done with a capitalist mindset. I prefer social-ism (omg i cant write social-ism together it gets beeped with ***, corporate vBulletin bull-crap further strengthening my point.) translating to this scenario so that;

1. Everything is free for everyone to use.
2. All code is free to release adapted only if the author gives permission exclusively or by license.
3. All support is free and voluntarily. This means that the group of people who'd rather pay and stay dumb about the (inner) workings of the software they use are going to have to use their head a bit. This results in a healthier community. e.g. I dont like lazy people.
4. Because all support is free, there is no heel licking to get more money. This results in a healthier community.

P.S. Humans run better on happiness then on money. While I acknowledge everyone is different, and you might get happier with more money, think of what money has done to the people that dont have any/that much outside and inside the western world. Start making a better future now, wherever you can.

[Geboran]

*kicks back on the sofa munching on some popcorn.*

[Tekkub]

Mazzle bribed me to stay quiet.

[Auralei]

Originally Posted by Arkive Yea, it's pretty clear we're done here. But, I'll take the time to address a few points you made since you took the time to make them. Should he stop supporting it, it would reside on Wowinterface like any other outdated mod. People could still download it and search forum posts for answers to their questions. I wouldn't say "yanking" and "no longer supporting" are the same thing, but I suppose we use words that support our feelings on matters, so ok. Copied how? Byte for byte? Yea, I guess. Is it's function likely to be duplicated again on the level it is in this compilation? Given it's the only one of it's kind that I know of (I've been playing almost 2 years and modding my UI since day 1), it's possible, but unlikely. He "stuck it to the public" in the past? Guess I missed that part as I was enjoying playing Warcraft instead of spending countless hours configuring my UI. I don't think anyone, including Mazzle, would dispute that he's been "short" on occasions. But I'll tell you this, as someone who manages a medium sized network and does a lot of work for my users that they don't see, and some of them (not all) choose to ignore the very few, and simple, requests I make of them...well yea, it can be frustrating. Some of us are better at concealing it then others, and perhaps if I wasn't paid to do so, I might have made a few comments of my own. But to respond directly to that, if you scan through the forums you'll be hard pressed to find a comment like the ones you're talking about that wasn't in response to a question the user would have known if they spent a small amount of effort reading the FAQ or known issues thread.

Well, first, do I want him to stop supporting it? is this a trick question? No, of course I don't. There are PEOPLE who use and depend on his addon. Some of which could never PAY HIM to use it. So what about them??? How bout it Mazzle? What about your users, under 18, who can't pay you money to use your addon anymore? Are you going to say, "Too bad, so sad!"? That's why I had to do a double take when I read the first post in the poll thread. I figured, no way he could actually be serious. Wrong. He was. Well, piss on those users, eh Mazz? You'll get potentially $500 a month from your site, those users can just.....find another comp? How genuine. I may be jumping the gun but, will you include a free version here? If so, my mistake, but I saw no mention of what may happen when some of your users can't fatten the wallet. If I missed where he mentioned he'd maintain a free version, please, I welcome correction.


Copied how? Well, I'm running one that's stripped of everything Mazzle has put into it besides some art and a discord setting. And, well it looks EXACTLY like the original, different HUD, but hey, better IMO. So, copied, as in, someone could easily pirate his UI and offer it free, and, I wouldn't be surprised if that actually happened. But, if he plans to strip it of everything that doesn't rightfully belong to him, well, more power to him? Its just very sad that some of his dedicated followers, some that don't post, and don't rock the boat will be the first casualties of that decision.


And I've seen how everyong tries to justify his behavior towards his users, but it's falling on deaf ears with me. Nothing could excuse or justify some of the rude responses I've seen him give in the past, nothing. but it's irrelevant right now. The bigger point at hand is, ethics and his users. That's. It.




And as for the smurfs, Vanity Smurf much, Mazz?

[Mazzlefizz]

Bribed you? With what would I ever bribe you with?

*Gives Tekkub a napkin to clean his greasy fingers that smell strangely like bacon*

[Mazzlefizz]

Originally Posted by Auralei And as for the smurfs, Vanity Smurf much, Mazz?

Which one is that? Oh wait.

*looks in mirror and says "Aren't I the most Smurfyest Smurf you have ever seen?"*

[joive]

Imagine for a moment that Auralei is living right next to you. You look through the window and you see he just got a new chainsaw and a leather mask in the mail. You are not John McClane from Die Hard. What would you do?

[Auralei]

Eh, throwing around goofy innuendo isn't productive. And I've contributed all I need to on this subject, I will return to my thread watch.

I'll wait and see if Mazzle comes up with an answer for his free customers. Surely I won't be disappointed, now will I?

[Arkive]

Originally Posted by Auralei Well, first, do I want him to stop supporting it? is this a trick question? No, of course I don't. There are PEOPLE who use and depend on his addon. Some of which could never PAY HIM to use it. So what about them??? How bout it Mazzle? What about your users, under 18, who can't pay you money to use your addon anymore? Are you going to say, "Too bad, so sad!"?

It's all about motivation. Is better to let a mod fall off the map because the author lacks the motivation to work on it, or better for them to seek out the motivation they require to continue doing so? I'd choose the latter. And if that option screws over some "kids" then you know what I say to them...go get a job. I've worked since I was 14 until I went to college doing anything from delivering papers to waiting tables. Are they more entitled to a handout then Mazzle is to ask for one?

Originally Posted by Auralei Copied how? Well, I'm running one that's stripped of everything Mazzle has put into it besides some art and a discord setting. And, well it looks EXACTLY like the original, different HUD, but hey, better IMO. So, copied, as in, someone could easily pirate his UI and offer it free, and, I wouldn't be surprised if that actually happened. But, if he plans to strip it of everything that doesn't rightfully belong to him, well, more power to him? Its just very sad that some of his dedicated followers, some that don't post, and don't rock the boat will be the first casualties of that decision.

So you made a UI that looks like MazzleUI, but has some other mods that are more to your liking? Pretty neat. Does it also coinfigure itself with a few checkboxes and a click of the button? Guessing not. It's obvious you don't see the real value of the compilation or you woudn't even try to compare your one-off version to something that works for all races/classes/resolutions.

Alas, since I started this thread, I'd like to think I reserve the right to close it. Mazzle, or someone else, please let Auralei (or anyone else) get some parting shots in so they won't feel compelled to start another thread to get the last word, which will only lead to another rant session (something I really should have had the foresight to see coming). It seems pretty apparent that I'm not going to get a reasonable response to my question. All I've seen is a bunch of hoo-haing around "money is the root of evil", "real authors do it for free", and "anyone could make this if they wanted to". Not one single response that actually details why users like myself who are willing to pay for the UI should download a "stripped" version of Mazzle that does the exact same thing as the bundled version (once I download the "proprietary" portions manually) is somehow better then just packaging it all together. Someone will no doubt post a free addendum that folks like myself can download that includes all the mods necessary to fill out the MazzleUI, making this entire debocle a pointless exercise anyway.

[Mazzlefizz]

Originally Posted by Aurelai I'll wait and see if Mazzle comes up with an answer for his free customers. Surely I won't be disappointed, now will I?

I humbly boast that "free customers" should get things with priceless costs and modest magnificence! That would be smurfy.

[Geboran]

Dedicated support for keeping the UI running smoothly, making necessary fixes and allowing folks to get those before those who can't (or won't) pay for them, and updating the UI compilation on a more regular basis is worth folks paying some extra coin for.

In so long as Mazzle was to provide an update to the UI compilation package with various fixes/improvements from time to time for FREE here on the site, I don't see this being as big an issue as some are making it out to be. However, this question hasn't been directly answered, so that's where the speculation comes in to play.

Personally, I would view such a website set up as a Technical Support website that users can opt to pay for. Much like when you buy a new computer someplace and pay for an optional warranty for service should you have computer problems that go beyond the normal warranty period. You get what you pay for, right? More personalized attention to issues that you are having personally with addons has got to be worth something, right?

Of course, Mazzle would have to comply with any Author requests to remove addons from the compilation if it is indeed an issue to them. And, of course, as Arkive posted:

Someone will no doubt post a free addendum that folks like myself can download that includes all the mods necessary to fill out the MazzleUI, making this entire debocle a pointless exercise anyway.

[Mazzlefizz]

Originally Posted by Geboran Of course, Mazzle would have to comply with any Author requests to remove addons from the compilation if it is indeed an issue to them.

I've already definitively stated on the other thread, before any of the posts in this thread were made, that I wouldn't be distributing any add-ons on the site other than my own. But don't let that slow down the arguments here! EVIL MAZZLE IS SELLING YOUR WAREZ!

If there's one thing that grouchy smurf taught us, is that you can't get rid of him and that he's relentless. He starts with his dislike and finds reasons to substantiate it. Like him, you're not going to dissuade the haters from that tactic with facts or reason.

[Auralei]

Originally Posted by Arkive So you made a UI that looks like MazzleUI, but has some other mods that are more to your liking? Pretty neat. Does it also coinfigure itself with a few checkboxes and a click of the button? Guessing not. It's obvious you don't see the real value of the compilation or you woudn't even try to compare your one-off version to something that works for all races/classes/resolutions.

No, it doesn't because I don't require such things. I don't distribute it, so there isn't a need for that feature. And if I did distribute it, it would be done exactly like 90% of the other comps out there and feature a WTF file. I never once said that Mazzle's UI wasn't a nice compilation and didn't have outstanding functional properties. Not once. I said that his work was minimal compared to the work in the other 30+ addons it features. And, it is. It's still great work, and I never compared my "one off" version to his, I simply said, "It can be copied and will be, likely." And his comp isn't "valuable", it's easy and highly functional, there's a big difference. There are 10 dozen comps out there, valuable is a fallacy.


The above reply, is irrelevant to the discussion, by the way. Which was "why are people so angry?" Amazing how the fanboi's will sit and justify it with, "Mazzle the great! You don't value his work! Mazzle PWNZORSJOON00BS!"


And, to Mazzle, if that really is the case, and you really will only be selling you code, then there's no problem. But that's not how people perceived it when you posted your poll, and that's what made the dust fly. As a parting comment, and one that will not take shots at anyone for anything, I DO hope that you will consider a free version for other users who can not, for whatever reason, pay you. I know many users of your compilation, they love it, and with good reason for what it offers. Please do not leave them all behind in your wake because you're tired of questions, you will get those whether the person pays $5 to ask you or not. I'm appealing to you, basically. Personal opinions aside, I really do hope you'll keep a free one going.

[joive]

If there's one thing that grouchy smurf taught us, is that you can't get rid of him and that he's relentless. He starts with his dislike and finds reasons to substantiate it. Like him, you're not going to dissuade the haters from that tactic with facts or reason.[/color][/quote]

I noticed. But this is like an Anger Management Session. You explain something, they respond to the last post without reading the previous, then you explain more and they respond to your last explanation with the arguments from their first post, reading your previous one. They cover, reload and shoot the same corpse. It's like a circular obstacle course but more fun. I can copy and paste my first reply for every angry post (goofy innuendo), but where's the fun in that?

Yes Aura , we thank you for all your productive contribution (and for the free entertaining too).