WoWInterface and Curse working together to help protect authors and other site-users

[HonorGoG]

Originally Posted by silentdabeast I think it's time either Blizzard steps in and shuts these morons down (which they CAN do), OR people give up and start writing their own addons - it's reall not that hard....a basic addon is 3 files, and it's all text.

Yeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh.

[Petrah]

Originally Posted by MidgetMage55 I will be taking over. You shall all be paid in pocket lint and sarcastic statements. As a special case Tekkub will be paid in pictures of bacon.

Now that is cruel and unusual punishment!

[Jalandar]

Originally Posted by voodoodad AHEM! Not to repeat myself or anything, but...

Being critical does not mean one does not like the site. If I didn't like the site, I wouldn't come. If I didn't want to see the site be better, I wouldn't be critical.

If all I wanted was the addons, I would just download them quietly, and ignore everything else.

Proof... that other site, I don't go there except when I must to get a non-WoWI hosted addon, and I don't comment on their site about its many lackings.

Honestly, I had high hopes for Minion, with all the hype you and everyone else were giving for it. I'm so greatly disappointed with what it turned out to be, however. And I would have truly kept that to myself had I not see the posts here from you and others touting it as the answer to WM. Comparing Minion to WM is like comparing a Yugo to a Mustang. From what I see, Minion is MONTHS from being truly and safely usable, and who knows how long till it has a feature set that makes it truly useful.

Frankly, I think you were better off with no updater than releasing this in its current form. MMOUI promised much more than they could deliver in this regard.

I once again feel that a big public overture to WM (one that would not have been easy to ignore, as MMOUI claims happened in the past) with an offer that included shared ad revenue, or additional ad placement, and a bandwidth/resource friendly API, that could have even integrated other site features into it, would have been a much better path for MMOUI to take. Alas, that idea doesn't go over so well with the admins here.

[Tristanian]

Originally Posted by Jalandar It became about that when people began calling it the WM replacement, and comparing it favorably, and then when others pointed out how it lacks Vs WM then the anti-WM folks started attacking WM on other points in this thread. So those who disagree don't have the right to refute those statements? So whose only warning is it? A warning against those who are simply pointing out the failure of the updater to live up to other updaters, including WM? Because that smacks of silencing your critics. Not that I'd be surprised, especially given my prior experience with that from you guys.

The problem is you are comparing an application that has had more than a year to "mature" with an unfinished application going through a beta period and hasn't even be out for a month. It's fairly obvious that the latter is going to be lacking in certain areas, especially when it is fundamentally different in design and philosophy. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Therefore, this so called disagreement is an obvious attempt to point fingers, vent frustration and derail this thread to a beaten to death subject that has been thoroughly analyzed in another (mega) thread. From that point of view, yes that kind of discussion is off topic.

Shirik has every right in the world to defend his software, especially when it is unfairly compared to updaters that have been out there for quite some time. In all honesty, what did you expect ? Someone to wave a magic wand and make the "one updater to rule them all" overnight, completely free of charge and with 0 ads and will get you the best girl in bed ? If that is the case, I'm sorry to break it to you but you are simply waiting for something that isn't going to happen. Minion will go on, bugs will be weeded out in time and it will become an updater worthy of WoWI. Whether you choose to use it or not, is of course your own right. But pretty please, lose the "silencing" comments. We have not silenced anyone voicing his opinion, no matter how much we may (or may not) agree or disagree with it, provided he abides by the posting rules. The other thread, still open for discussion proves this.

[Jalandar]

Originally Posted by Tristanian But pretty please, lose the "silencing" comments. We have not silenced anyone voicing his opinion, no matter how much we may (or may not) agree or disagree with it, provided he abides by the posting rules.

Sorry, Tristanian, but in this you are incorrect. This has already happened. I won't bother going into more details about it, yet again, but it most certainly has happened, and from the feedback I got when I went to the admins to be critical of how they do it, I was basically told that the method used is going to continue to be used regardless.

Completely silencing someone on this site is as easy as an admin changing a single tickmark, and then no one will see any of their comments, anywhere on the site, even in the addon comment sections. And, the user themselves won't even know they have been silenced because to them, their comments appear normally, they still see them, just that no one else does. This includes new threads, the user sees them, no one else does. Very insidious.

It's a very sleazy way of doing things IMO, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Just don't tell me it doesn't happen, it does.

[Jalandar]

Thanks for proving my point for me.....

Someone can get silenced completely for being assertively critical (and only get to discover it by accident, and only get it reversed by being very assertive about it), and others get to tell people to essentially just go away, but because they are fanboys they get to get away with it.

Now we will get 1-3 posts slapping him on the back for his comment.

[Cairenn]

Originally Posted by Jalandar Thanks for proving my point for me..... Someone can get silenced completely for being assertively critical (and only get to discover it by accident, and only get it reversed by being very assertive about it), and others get to tell people to essentially just go away, but because they are fanboys they get to get away with it. Now we will get 1-3 posts slapping him on the back for his comment.

Jalandar, have you ever considered the possibility that I was perhaps asleep? Contrary to popular belief, I do actually do that from time to time.

Guys, dial it back, you know better than that. Edit your posts appropriately or I'll do it for you.

[Tristanian]

Originally Posted by Jalandar Thanks for proving my point for me..... Someone can get silenced completely for being assertively critical (and only get to discover it by accident, and only get it reversed by being very assertive about it), and others get to tell people to essentially just go away, but because they are fanboys they get to get away with it. Now we will get 1-3 posts slapping him on the back for his comment.

The ghosting method used on your account isn't something new or uncommon, yet it was an overzealous attempt to moderate that thread at the point where it was going out of control. We have explained this to you and you have received our apologies, none of your posts was lost or deleted. I sincerely do not understand what you hope to accomplish but repeating the same thing over and over again.

And as for the rest. Please keep it civil. Disagree in a respectful way if you must, but try to limit your comments to minion. This thread has been derailed enough already.

[voodoodad]

Originally Posted by Jalandar Thanks for proving my point for me..... Someone can get silenced completely for being assertively critical (and only get to discover it by accident, and only get it reversed by being very assertive about it), and others get to tell people to essentially just go away, but because they are fanboys they get to get away with it. Now we will get 1-3 posts slapping him on the back for his comment.

Ok, if actually enjoying interacting with (most) people in a civilized manor on this site makes me a fanboy, then yes, guilty as charged. I'm a fanboy and I'm ok, I work all night and I sleep all day. I only suggested that perhaps you would be happier if you were to move on to greener pastures. I know many of us would be... Umm... Happy for you that is... And as for slaps on the back, please don't, I have a very sensitive spine. Gentle pats on the tushy will be much appreciated, however.

[Scalebane]

Can i laugh at silent and the other fail guy? i mean like laugh till i fall over crying and my stomach hurting?

[killer189]

Well seeing as I got my response of "All we care about is money and nothing else" that will suffice ty

[MidgetMage55]

Originally Posted by killer189 Well seeing as I got my response of "All we care about is money and nothing else" that will suffice ty

I have a hard time believing that you came here for answers.

Your prize:

[Seerah]

I'm really sorry, MidgetMage55, but...

Originally Posted by killer189 Well seeing as I got my response of "All we care about is money and nothing else" that will suffice ty

I fail to see where you came to this assumption... But, as MidgetMage55 said, I also don't think you came here looking for answers. If you had, then I highly suggest reading through this thread again, slowly, in addition to the other threads linked here.

We are not the bad guys here. If you seem intent on portraying us and viewing us this way, then... I suppose that no amount of reasoning will sway you. But then we're back at MidgetMage55's suggestion.

[silentdabeast]

Me FREAKIN too! I made a new account on this site so I could get Minion and comment on it. I thought to myself "if only it can be better than WM". But it's not...it just isn't.

Frankly, and I hate to sound mean, but I really don't care about the author's rights here. All that is is a sob story. You know, the ONE mistake that WM made was that they did NOT put the author's name by the addon in the beginning. For that I scoff them. But what does NOT add up is this:

Everyone happy = author happy + enduser happy.

That's the equation we WANT, right? BUT, wowi and curse have rewritten the equation:

Everyone happy = author happy + addon host profits - enduser happy.

do you see what they've done? They have totally disregarded the enduser! IF WoWi and Curse WERE trying to make the enduser happy, WM would have been a pointless and profitless endeavor. BUT THE NEED WAS THERE, and the WM folks went for it! THEY rewrote the equation:

Enduser happy = accessibility + convenience + addon host profit

They didn't care about the red tape they needed to cut through for this, they just did it, and for THAT I respect them! They cut the feet out from under WowI and curse - and those feet NEEDED to be cut!

NO ONE has come up with the RIGHT equation however:

Everyone happy = author happy + host happy + enduser happy.

I think WM is working toward that and I believe they have the knack for it. WoWI and Curse are still stuck in the rut of "addon host first", so they both fail in my math book...I'm tellin you guys, esp. you authors, you keep hosting your addons here and it will come back to bite you...When WM get's their author's site up and running - forget these a-holes and work with WM instead! They will be the only ones with the right equation...wait and see.

[Torhal]

Originally Posted by silentdabeast I'm tellin you guys, esp. you authors, you keep hosting your addons here and it will come back to bite you...

It will come back and bite me...how? I upload my addons in case poeple feel like using them. I don't give a flying **** if they actually do use them - so how would I be harmed by the fact that some selfish pricks refuse to come to the sites where I deem my work should be available?

Originally Posted by silentdabeast When WM get's their author's site up and running - forget these a-holes and work with WM instead! They will be the only ones with the right equation...wait and see.

Let me get this straight - I should feel compelled to go work with someone who shamelessly violated my copyright and intentionally harmed the people whom I chose to work with...because it would make you feel better? Wow. Give me some of whatever you're taking.

[Tristanian]

Originally Posted by silentdabeast I'm tellin you guys, esp. you authors, you keep hosting your addons here and it will come back to bite you...When WM get's their author's site up and running - forget these a-holes and work with WM instead! They will be the only ones with the right equation...wait and see.

I'll try to be as calm and as less condescending as possible. Since you blatantly state that you don't care about author's rights, then simply put we won't care about you or anyone in the same mindset like you and I'm willing to bet other authors share this opinion.

These "a-holes" as you so eloquently put it, have been here since day 1. "Ace" used to be hosted on WoWI, then went ahead and tried to "live" as a developer community. It was Kaelten, Cairenn and a few others that created this community, by setting the foundations and helping the authors stand on their own feet and all they gained was...expenses really and more responsibilities. Did they do it purely out of the goodness of their heart ? Probably not. Both Curse and WoWI are running a business, as does WM. The difference is, the way the choose to operate. There is a "proper" way of doing things and the "screw you, I'll do whatever I can get away with and make you look bad" way.

WM's greatest mistake was to isolate authors (aka the source of addons) by disrespecting their wishes and not going to them directly. And it's that mistake that won't get them any sympathy, now or in the future. If you expect the authors or the well established addons to join them on their "fresh start", then realistically speaking (and I'm sorry to be the one to break this to you), you are waiting for something that just isn't going to happen.

[voodoodad]

But.. He said "wait and see"! That means he knows something the rest of us poor suckers who actually enjoy the community here don't know! I'm really hoping Scooby Doo and Shaggy show up soon so they can pull off these guy's (rabid wm supporters) rubber masks. Then we can hear them say "I'd have got away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling kids!"

Btw, I'm working diligently to come up with a "And your little dog, too!" reference, but so far no joy. If anyone can help, please post here. Thanks.

[Vyper]

Originally Posted by Jalandar I once again feel that a big public overture to WM (one that would not have been easy to ignore, as MMOUI claims happened in the past) with an offer that included shared ad revenue, or additional ad placement, and a bandwidth/resource friendly API, that could have even integrated other site features into it, would have been a much better path for MMOUI to take. Alas, that idea doesn't go over so well with the admins here.

Jalandar, lets play pretend for a minute.

Pretend you are one hell of a salesman, and have managed to convince the music companies to let you distribute music, in MP3 format, and all they ask in return is the use of a microphone, and that you provide them a place to communicate with their listeners (See what a damn good salesman you are?). This you finance through selling space on a banner you keep on top of your building/booth/whatever.

I come along, make copies of all your MP3s (hey they're all free right?!), and begin distributing them myself in a different, more convenient collection. I also have a (smaller) billboard. Mind you, I give nothing back to you or the artists.

Go figure, both you and the artists get a little worked up, saying whoa, whoa, you're the only one with permission to distribute those... if I want to distribute them, I have to work out my own deal with the artists.

It seems the law is indeed on your side, so I make a change. I park my booth directly in front of yours, blocking your banner with my own. When someone comes up wanting an MP3, I simply grab it from your booth, and hand it too them. I even come over and pat you on the back, and say "Now isn't that better?"

Thankfully this is your property, so you have me booted off. Now, some of your customers are angry. They really, really liked my collections.

After observing the way I have handled myself so far, do you really feel like making a public overture to me? Heck, even if you could bring yourself to swallow your pride, would you really trust me enough to make a business partner of me?

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't if I were you.

[us2006027321]

Originally Posted by killer189 Would I care if the addon was helping people enchance thier gaming exp?

Your self-supplied answer to that question was no, and since that's the case, you've missed the whole point of authors making their add-ons available in the first place.

Originally Posted by killer189 To be quite honest I could care less who manages the addons...whether it be curse, WM, or WI. I just can't stand the holier then though art bullcrap thats spewing about.

If you don't care who hosts the add-on, then stop griping about what you perceive to be market-domination, and praise the add-on marketing gods for not cutting you off from their add-ons.

Originally Posted by silentdabeast What REALLY got me and turned me off of this program was the huge freaking flash add on the bottom right of the screen! This is unnecessary!

Things that are free to you cost someone money. If you don't like how they raise that money, find something better. If you don't have any other options and lack the whit or will to supply yourself with other options, suck it up and deal.

Originally Posted by silentdabeast Keep in mind, there are a handful of people - wowui supporters - who will praise and worship your creations no matter what horse crap you produce. Shoot, you could make a program that is loaded with viruses and spam, and they'd still say "this is the best - this is awesome..." because they are that dull in the head!

I take extreme exception to that, sir, and I will not have you saying I am dull by sheer virtue of the fact that I am capable of being content with the options others are making available to me because I'm too lazy to do it myself. Quality takes time. Take an attitude of gratitude for what's been made available to you, and not one of entitlement.

Originally Posted by silentdabeast I'm not happy.

We'd noticed. I'm sorry no one informed you that life isn't a bed of roses before you hit adulthood (LoL?), but here's your sign. I'm sure you'll get over your emotions eventually. /soothe

Originally Posted by silentdabeast I will NOT let you make money off of me.

Incidentally, by coming here to QQ about how unhappy you are, you're raising money for the site by seeing all their banner ads. If I were WoWI, my response to you would be, "Thank you for your support, even if you don't find our Minion to your liking."

Originally Posted by silentdabeast Everyone feels they're entitled to something. The Authors feel they're "entitled" to have their names on a free-to-public addon. The sites that distribute the addons believe their "entitled" to make a profit from them. The consumers feel "entitled" to get the addon in a way that makes them happy...

Pot, meet Kettle. You're no exception to this. What you're battling is exactly your own sense of entitlement. Since you know you aren't going to be perfectly happy, simply take what you can get and move on. Do what you have to do to keep your add-ons up-to-date or uninstall them. If you really think that no one is going to listen to your rants/suggestions, why waste your time here?

Originally Posted by silentdabeast I could build a nice "author-friendly" website for them to host their addons and do all and more than WoWi and Curse do...

Then please do. If you could do it better and treat the user better, do it. If it doesn't matter enough for you to do it, then don't spend your time here bagging on the site. You aren't accomplishing anything, and you certainly haven't earned yourself with any cred from teh intarwebz by boasting about what you haven't done.

Originally Posted by silentdabeast If you ask me they're all a bunch of spoiled brats who think they somehow deserve our respect, our love, and our support. They don't 'deserve' anything from us!

And you don't deserve anything from them. Now that we have that square, are you ready to call it even?

Originally Posted by Tekkub No one has sent me anything warm and fuzzy to feel up, what are you talking about?

If I could send you the desired warm, fuzzy bit without any detriment to my own health and satisfaction, I'd have sent it to you by now, studly. /grin

Originally Posted by Scalebane Can i laugh at silent and the other fail guy? i mean like laugh till i fall over crying and my stomach hurting?

I'm not a site-mod or anything so I can't give you permission, but you certainly have my support to that end! I'll join you and raise you a nannar!

EDIT: As per Voodoodad's reply to me, I have removed my response to Tristinian. Thank you, Trist (or whoever moved the threaded bits), for keeping on-topic bits on topic then. /hug

[voodoodad]

@ Us,
Silent and Killers comments were moved here from the minion thread because they only want to rant about how great wm is/was and how bad minion is in their opinions.