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08-14-05, 09:21 PM   #1
Cairenn
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/sigh

Yet another site that is uploading mods without checking with the mod authors themselves:

World of Warcraft UI Mod Database (WOW DB)

And it would appear that they are ripping them straight from the ui.worldofwar.net database.

When will people learn that things like that are theft of intellectual property?

Thread on Blizzard forum is here.
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Last edited by Cairenn : 08-14-05 at 10:59 PM.
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08-14-05, 09:43 PM   #2
Kaelten
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ya this kinda got me miffed as well. considering the version of KCI that is up there is now two versions old, and apparently has 6 downloads.
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08-14-05, 10:32 PM   #3
Kaelten
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omg now their the google of ui mods? wtf?
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08-14-05, 10:34 PM   #4
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hehehe, saw that
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08-14-05, 10:50 PM   #5
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Ummm, where did the thread go? Have I just gone blind?
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08-14-05, 10:53 PM   #6
Devla
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Its gone

Their site is still up though...better update your mods soon!
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08-15-05, 05:09 PM   #7
Brugs
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Originally Posted by Cairenn
Yet another site that is uploading mods without checking with the mod authors themselves:

World of Warcraft UI Mod Database (WOW DB)

And it would appear that they are ripping them straight from the ui.worldofwar.net database.

When will people learn that things like that are theft of intellectual property?

Thread on Blizzard forum is here.
Hi there,

First, I would like to appreciate that I uploaded information about authors, and there is no excuses for this action.

Now the next step is how I will salvage this process. We are here now, and what I did is not acceptable. I cannot change the past, and I will take full responsibility of this.

The thing is how we can continue so all parts get friendly out of this situation. I can tell you that I have used more than 500 hours freely to develop this service. My intention has always been "give something to the community", a service that could make things simpler.

Now here is my story...
When I created the first UI Mod Database back in December 2004, I had a complete system where people could upload there UI mod information. I quickly grew to 50-70 mods.

A couple of weeks after I see a new UI Mod DB popup, this is wowaddons.com (now defunct). This mod DB started already with 50 UI Mods from beginning...

If I remember, clear 9 January another UI Mod DB popup - this time this is curse-gaming. The DB opened with more than 100 UI Mods and it quickly got very popular, and grew very fast to today's #1 UI Mod DB. Sites like wowaddons.com and mine did poorly after curse-gaming - simply of lack of features compared to curse-gaming.

Already back in beginning of February I was busy with school, so I disconnected my UI Mod database. Somewhere in May, I saw another popular “pre created” WoW DB popup – this time it was ui.worldofwar.

I am not sure when/how wowinterface / wowguru was build. However, I believe that they were definitely not from an empty playground.

However, I see the same similarity over and over with new UI Mod databases – that they was created with pre-build UI Mods and they share the same user base. No matter in what scale you did this, without asking the authors it does not make you less suspected. I do not find it fair to be accused by the majority, because there is so many others linked to this factor.

So where does this lead us?
I predict within not very long time - we will see many new WoW UI Mod Databases popup, this factor is just a matter of time. This will eventually lead to an even more complex and chaotic situation for the UI Mod Developers.

“Already back in January I said to the community - that we will need a standard for all the UI Mods.” - Brugs

However, one thing for sure, you cannot judge me like this - because I clearly explained that all major parts have done the same.

Another factor is you cannot judge anyone here about intellectual property - we can only hence about this. None of us has the technical expertise, neither the right to stamp each other - because this simply leads to no good.

Because I created the first UI Mod Database - does it give me the right to own the concept?

I would like to see an open debate about this… and hear people’s opinion…

Brugs
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08-15-05, 05:13 PM   #8
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no, it gives you no such right.

You CAN own a certain set of codes. you cannot own an idea for a site. That would mean that the first search engine for online code could shut all others down.

The first blog could be the only one.

You own the code you write to run a site. Not the idea a site presents.


My suggestion for the course of action for you is to

1) clear your DB.

2) finish the full system

3) relaunch the site and invite authors to post there.
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08-16-05, 12:07 PM   #9
Syxx
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Originally Posted by Kaelten
My suggestion for the course of action for you is to

1) clear your DB.

2) finish the full system

3) relaunch the site and invite authors to post there.

Kaelten is exactly right. Doing the leg work to get a site going goes miles in respect for that site and it's Admin(s).

In doing what you have done, you've alienated the authors. Which isn't a good thing to do to a beginning website.

6
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08-16-05, 03:16 PM   #10
tralkar
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Quote:
However, one thing for sure, you cannot judge me like this - because I clearly explained that all major parts have done the same.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This site has never uploaded someone's mods. The only people that upload mods here are the mod authors themselves. Always been that way, always will be.
I just had to add this in IF you are not the author of a mod, DON'T post it ! !
Meaning i see alot of people going to other sites and copying there stuff and posting on the bourds.. Most say there not there own but still.. If the author wanted it here he would of posted it him/her self...If you think its a great mod then post a link to it..

Last edited by tralkar : 08-16-05 at 03:19 PM.
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08-16-05, 03:39 PM   #11
Brugs
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Originally Posted by Syxx
Kaelten is exactly right. Doing the leg work to get a site going goes miles in respect for that site and it's Admin(s).

In doing what you have done, you've alienated the authors. Which isn't a good thing to do to a beginning website.

6
The concept sounds good on a paper, so did communism, but to be honest the concept does not work in reality. To get big, you must think big.

I see it like this, there is the One Microsoft Way, or win the popularity way.

You cannot have them both.

Anyways, I do lissent to you, I will need some time to consider this option.

Brugs

Last edited by Brugs : 08-16-05 at 04:49 PM.
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08-16-05, 05:24 PM   #12
Kaelten
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@Brugs

You should be able to do a search of my mods by my authors name right?

Also as I have custodial ownership of all of Turans Mods on all sites except curse-gaming I request that they be taken down as well.

So here is a list

Ace
Ace Development Kit
AuctionIt
AuctionHelper
OneBag
Tipster
AutoRepair (Kael Cycle)
KC_EnhancedTrades
KC_Items
KC_RadialButtons
Shutup!
MyBindings
MoneyFrameNuker
PackRat
SplitSafely
Stalker


And to be frankly honest. I don't have a problem with your site. What does bother me is that these things where added without me even being notified. Not so much of a permission thing. Also the lack of abilty for me to even be able to offer maintence/support to these addons.

However I would request that any and all of the above listed addons be removed from your database indefintely.

You want to become the best site?

Here's my advice.

1) Respect the authors and pay attention to our requests. For as much as you make the site so do we.

2) Offer advanced features and services to both users and authors.

3) Focus your site on usability and functionality. Not on the attitude that "We are the first and greatest." This is a turn off.

4) Try to help both users and authors achive new things to aid them. Not yourself.


These are the things that can lead to awesome things for a site imho.

Please consider these things and honor my request of removing mine and turan's addons from your site.

Thank you.
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08-30-05, 07:29 AM   #13
chemosh
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Originally Posted by Brugs
The concept sounds good on a paper, so did communism, but to be honest the concept does not work in reality. To get big, you must think big.

I see it like this, there is the One Microsoft Way, or win the popularity way.

You cannot have them both.

Anyways, I do lissent to you, I will need some time to consider this option.

Brugs
Just to attempt to clarify this...whatever type of argument this is...what, distraction or something?

The concept isn't on paper...that was about 9 years ago. This is a matter of law. Communism isn't comparable, where the heck did that come from?? The concept DOES and IS and WILL continue to work...It's the Law. You do not have intellectual copyright on the mods on your site. Therefore, BY LAW, you can't post them.

This isn't a debate. Its the Law.

And if you REALLY want to bring Microsoft into this, who has been battling the supreme court for years due to anti-trust law violations, excuse, alleged violations. Popularity way? Where did that come from. We are stating very clearly to you, remove all mods from your site that are not yours by copyright. THEN you message the author asking permission to post the mods and allow them to update the mods to keep them current.

Good luck with your site, your defensive posturing and confusing arguments have already lost you a customer. Why would I go to a site of already dubious reputation, when I can come to well established sites with great reputations of looking out for both the auther and users?
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08-15-05, 05:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Brugs
I am not sure when/how wowinterface / wowguru was build. However, I believe that they were definitely not from an empty playground.
All our interfaces were uploaded by their respected authors. 100%. That is how we always did it for all our sites ever since eqinterface.com was opened in July of 2002.
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08-15-05, 06:03 PM   #15
Cairenn
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Originally Posted by Brugs
I am not sure when/how wowinterface / wowguru was build. However, I believe that they were definitely not from an empty playground.

However, I see the same similarity over and over with new UI Mod databases – that they was created with pre-build UI Mods and they share the same user base. No matter in what scale you did this, without asking the authors it does not make you less suspected. I do not find it fair to be accused by the majority, because there is so many others linked to this factor.
However, one thing for sure, you cannot judge me like this - because I clearly explained that all major parts have done the same.
This site has never uploaded someone's mods. The only people that upload mods here are the mod authors themselves. Always been that way, always will be.

Another factor is you cannot judge anyone here about intellectual property - we can only hence about this. None of us has the technical expertise, neither the right to stamp each other - because this simply leads to no good.
Actually, yes we can. If you make available to others (redistribute) works done by someone other than yourself, without their express consent, that is infringement of their intellectual copyright protections. There are no two ways around it.

Let me say, though, that I do believe that you didn't intend any harm, and now that you see the response by the community, you have addressed it, which is all to the good. Kudos to you, it takes a big person to apologize.

Because I created the first UI Mod Database - does it give me the right to own the concept?
Check my "registered" date. We were around during closed beta. We had to close for a while for various reasons, and re-opened in January, the same time as Curse-Gaming.com and ui.worldofwar.net opened their doors. We just weren't as "big", because we didn't have a pre-populated database of mods, as already discussed.



All of that being said, I meant what I said on the Blizzard forums. Welcome back, I really do hope your site does well.

Last edited by Cairenn : 08-15-05 at 06:16 PM.
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08-15-05, 06:33 PM   #16
Brugs
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Originally Posted by Cairenn
Actually, yes we can. If you make available to others (redistribute) works done by someone other than yourself, without their express consent, that is infringement of their intellectual copyright protections. There are no two ways around it.
Please stop accusing me; you do not have any physical evidence. Please revise your conclussion.

Well you cannot speak for other people - let people decide on there own, how they would like to redistribute there intellectual properties. Neither did I ask to Google to spider my site...

They are certainly welcome to email me with any concerns (admin at wow-db.com)

Originally Posted by Cairenn
Check my "registered" date. We were around during closed beta. We had to close for a while for various reasons, and re-opened in January, the same time as Curse-Gaming.com and ui.worldofwar.net opened their doors. We just weren't as "big", because we didn't have a pre-populated database of mods, as already discussed.
Registered date does not say anything - it's the content that count. You can do the talk, but can you do the walk?

Brugs
World of Warcraft UI Mod Database
http://www.wow-db.com
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08-15-05, 06:37 PM   #17
Cairenn
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As you wish ...

/bow

I remind people to keep it civil.
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Last edited by Cairenn : 08-15-05 at 07:10 PM.
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08-15-05, 07:09 PM   #18
Kaelten
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ok, evidence? My addons are all on your site, without you asking me for consent. I imagine that constitutes as physical evidence that you have hosted files belonging to author people other than yourself without consulting all the authors concerned.

And please know that if you don't want google to spyder your site there are easy ways to stop it.

Also they will be happy to remove any cached materials they have in relation to a site upon request.

Again though Google doesn't host files, they link to them.
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