A Strange Thing Happened Today

[us2006027321]

I'm a guild leader of two very loosely organized social/leveling guilds. I like to be as nice as possible to all my guildies by doing the standard stuff: free ports, free runs, etc. I'm also pretty careful with what I do and don't let fly in guild chat as I'm fully aware that kids play the game, and while I may not ask them to identify themselves as minors or adults, I don't think it's bad to assume that kids are present. (I think that's especially true for my Alliance guild since we all know Alliance are a bunch of 12 year olds. I jest.)

Today, one of my guildies informed me it was his birthday, so I sent him a bunch of stuff (a couple pieces of new gear and some glyphs). It was purchased with in-game gold and sent through the in-game mail. About two hours later, I get a whisper from his character claiming to be his parents all about how I shouldn't be using WoW to prowl for 9 year old boys and using game loot to lure them into a predatory trap. As the speech patterns, message post rate, punctuation, and grammar were very different from that which is typical to the player, I'm guessing this wasn't him just being weird. Needless to say, the character got removed from the guild, and I'm on his ignore list.

I'm sad! I haven't behaved any differently to him than I would any other guildy, and I was just being nice... Is it really that creepy for me to send stuff to someone on in-game mail for their birthday? Do I need to start asking people's ages? What's the proper etiquette here?

[Torhal]

From what you just described, I'm going to make an assumption.

Kid plays WoW unsupervised.
He tells you it's his birthday. You send him stuff.
He gets excited, and his parents ask WTF is going on. He tells them. Having no clue what goes on in WoW, since he plays it without supervision, and hearing horror stories on the news, they assume the worst.

I chalk it up to a case of dumbassitis on the part of the parents.

[Padd]

I honestly wouldn't feel bad, if I were you. Parents take a lot of care when it comes to the internet now, with all the media scaremongering about child predators. There have been a lot of cases of "parents" intervening an online friendship, or guildship, even one closer to home, with a families leveling guild (much like your own) where my brother-in-law and sister played together and ran a guild, to which a parent accused my sister (yes, sister!) of being an online predator.

I say, just keep doing what you're doing and let it go, it is honestly not your fault.

[Zyonin]

Sounds like a classic case of not so Net/MMO savvy parents overreacting. Likely they don't supervise what their kid does on the Internet and they believe all the crap that the media shovels out these days. Sad case. About the only you can do is move on.

I am a parent myself, however I am also better prepared to deal with issues like this, in part because I am a gamer and I am net savvy, plus I take my news with a HUGE grain of salt (you need one of those giant mine dump trucks).

[Tithulta]

Wow that would have tripped me out as well. I have 3 nephews who play that are under 12 yr old and one thats 17.

As one can guess the 17 yr old is an awesome gamer with great guild etiquette.

The 11 yr old is still kiddie in that he wants the bright ans shiney stuff(blue an purples), but doesn't swipe gold from cousins, grandpa(yes he 60), dad(33..bro inlaw), mom/aunt(38..my sis) or uncle(33..me).

The 10 yr old earns his own stuff as well and asks to borrow gold or if he can have [blue or purple item].

9 yr old....OMG he has caused so many family arguments it isnt even funny. We've told him til we're blue in the face that grabbing our gold to buy his new shiny til i've banned him from playing on my account at all. I kno blizz doesnt like that, but who can afford 8 accounts?

They play semi supervised. Meaning someone is looking over their shoulder part of the time, but they are self supervised more than they should. Too much noise for anyone over 30 im sure.

I just make the assumption the Presidents daughters are playing and that I don't want SS to show up an arrest me.

[MidgetMage55]

Sounds very much like a case of parents letting the computer be the baby sitter and not being aware of what their child is involved in. Then flying off the handle and over-reacting when they can correlate some action to something they read or heard in the news.

I have 2 kids of my own. 6 and 9 years old. My oldest likes to play WoW at my house and his mothers house and there are restrictions as to what he is allowed to do unsupervised within the game. We basically disable his chat channels unless we are there with him. Not that he wants to take the time to talk to people anyway. Hes 9 he just wants to make tons of characters and kill stuff. The one time he did want to join a guild i sat with him and watched the guild chat a few days and deemed they were nice people and continued to sit with him when he chose to play that character.

Caution is never a bad idea but in this case its not caution its a plain knee jerk on the parents part. If they were doing the right thing by their children and letting them experience the game (or anything else for that matter) and meet truly nice people under supervision things like this wouldn't be an issue.

Just let it slide my friend. In an age where many parents rely on electronic baby sitters you have to expect that there will be plenty of people who freak out because they arent involved in what their kids are doing.

P.S.

Is it really that creepy for me to send stuff to someone on in-game mail for their birthday? Do I need to start asking people's ages? What's the proper etiquette here?

No its not creepy at all. Then again from what i know of you i fully understand its simply a gesture of kindness. Asking age wont make much of a difference since people can (and do) lie about such things especially on the interwebz. Just go with your gut. If you think someone you wish to send b-day gifts too in game might have parents that will react like this then dont send them. Maybe just a nice Happy Birthday game mail or get the guildies online to sing to them as a gesture of kindness. No reason to stop being who you are over this. =)

[voodoodad]

Unfortunately, you just can't afford to be nice to strangers anymore. Total indifference is the only way to be safe from things like this. I'm not saying it's right, by any means. Just the way it is.

[MidgetMage55]

Originally Posted by voodoodad Unfortunately, you just can't afford to be nice to strangers anymore. Total indifference is the only way to be safe from things like this. I'm not saying it's right, by any means. Just the way it is.

I only partially disagree with this. I wouldnt say you cant afford to be nice to strangers but i will go as far as saying you have to be much more cautious than before. The days of random acts of kindness are laced with large doses of caution.

[Yhor]

Originally Posted by MidgetMage55 I only partially disagree with this. I wouldnt say you cant afford to be nice to strangers but i will go as far as saying you have to be much more cautious than before. The days of random acts of kindness are laced with large doses of caution.

I have a moron cousin that likes to 'spread kindness'. He stopped and changed a lady's tire on the side of the road, got mud on her jack, there was mud on her flat tire, and mud on his hands. She got his tag number as he was leaving and sued him for cleaning costs due to his negligence handling her flat tire.... and the GD judge awarded her 140 dollars after deducting 10 for his labor (~ an hour of work). When I see some lady on the side of the road, I think to myself... she should've taken better care not to break down.

Is that cold? You bet.
Is it warranted? Damned right.

Edit: That being said. I used to give stuff to players (guildy, friends..) pretty regularly, I'm surprised I've never had this reaction before from some idiot parent.

[orionshock]

"Welcome to the Internet. Where all the guys are guys, all the girls are guys and all the 13yr olds' are FBI Agents. Have fun "

First thing that came to mind when i read the OP

[Petrah]

/hugs

I agree with the majority here. Try not to let it get to you though, although I know that's easier said than done.

/more hugs

[Sepioth]

Originally Posted by Yhor I have a moron cousin that likes to 'spread kindness'. He stopped and changed a lady's tire on the side of the road, got mud on her jack, there was mud on her flat tire, and mud on his hands. She got his tag number as he was leaving and sued him for cleaning costs due to his negligence handling her flat tire.... and the GD judge awarded her 140 dollars after deducting 10 for his labor (~ an hour of work). When I see some lady on the side of the road, I think to myself... she should've taken better care not to break down. Is that cold? You bet. Is it warranted? Damned right. Edit: That being said. I used to give stuff to players (guildy, friends..) pretty regularly, I'm surprised I've never had this reaction before from some idiot parent.

Amazing ... and people wonder why no one does random acts of kindness anymore...

I've hear of stories where people have a Heart Attack and some stranger performs CPR. During the use of CPR a rib or two gets broken (common during CPR) and the person instead of being thankful to be alive sues the person who performed CPR for breaking their rib(s).

I can tell you one thing I'll never perform CPR on a stranger and I have been certified.

I work in a Supermarket and a while back there was a rash of purse thefts going around. We where asked by Management to let people know this if we saw the owner of the purse leave it unattended. I saw a lady leave her purse alone so I watched it until she got back (a good 2-3 mins mind you) and told here of the issue of the purse thefts. She told me to leave her alone and mind my own F'n business. I never warned another person even though I saw many more unattended purses (stupid people)

[Republic]

A couple of obvious points that I think most of you are missing...

1) There's probably more to this episode than we're being told. While there may or may not be more to it, I find it really hard to believe someone's going to just decide to chew out someone for giving them gifts. It may or may not have been something said during the exchange, etc. But a reasonable person just doesn't fly off the handle like this about GIFTS. That doesn't mean to suggest the OP is lying or leaving something out, it simply means something might have transpired that was beyond his scope of perception. He may have made a joke that was inappropriate, etc. Something most of us might take for granted as being "normal wow", someone else might see it as highly objectionable.

2) The parents in this case are doing their job. This "kid" isn't unsupervised at all from what I can tell. Did you guys read the part about the PARENTS whispering the GM here? If they aren't supervising him, this kind of thing wouldn't happen. Okay, maybe they aren't sitting at the keyboard with the "kid" when he's playing, but a criticism of lack of supervision hardly is accurate. I applaud the parents for being this involved, if it is in fact really his parents involved.

3) What guild master DOESN'T ask ages to begin with? Certainly if you care about your guild's environment, you'd automatically ask this basic information right up front. I think you have a responsibility to all your members to inform them things like people's age as best you can. I'd think my GM was an idiot if he recruited a bunch of 35 yr olds to play with a bunch of 14 yr olds and didn't know what he was getting himself into. Neither age group would be happy with the other, etc. Bottom line, run a better guild.

That's about it. I just dont think we're hearing everything about this incident. I dont even think it's possible to know everything about it. Anyone can say anything in wow. I don't think it's accurate to cast judgement on a bunch of guild drama hearsay. No one really knows who this "kid/parent" character is. For all you know, it could have been a jealous lover.

The golden rule of this game = don't take anyone at face value. Trust but verify. Know what I'm saying? Of course we do. Just remember, there's two sides to every story. Sometimes three if she's angry enough!

[voodoodad]

Honest to God, Republic... What is WITH you? us<insertnumber> is obviously feeling bad about the situation... A bunch of us are attempting to help him to feel better... And suddenly you start throwing things in about "how we're not getting both sides" and "what kind of gm doesn't ask ages?"!

I'm here to tell you I have been a GM in the past and will probably be one again in the future, and I have never asked for ages. To me, appropriate behavior is appropriate behavior. Age doesn't enter into it. If something inappropriate is being said in guild chat that member will be called out for it, by me. us<insertnumber> has proven over and over in these forums his integrity and intelligence and I know without a doubt that what he said happened, happened exactly the way he describes it. And I trust him without any verification at all, thank you very much!

[Republic]

If you can't see how a group of 35 yr olds might have a different definition of expectations from a guild than a group of 14 yr olds, I don't believe I have anything left to say. Any good guild that I've run with always makes sure they know what they enroll. There tends to be cliques in guilds anyway, and that may or may not be a good thing but to have natural age divisions is another.

On top of this, despite the OP's intentions, the fact remains there are two sides to every story. Maybe the "kid" who got in trouble with his parents is an equally valid person as the OP. Ya think? Because the "kid" isn't posting here doesn't mean we should ignore the potential for this guy's points being a bit skewed. Maybe the kid regrets his parents finding out and getting mad (for some still unknown reason) and having to leave the guild? That's as equally important as the OP's feelings in my estimation.

Good GM's check ages and run things accordingly. That is, if you expect to keep mature players interested. If you're a casual guild flying by the seat of your pants, it probably won't matter to you. I'd expect a very high rate of attrition in those cases as well.

[Republic]

Originally Posted by voodoodad us<insertnumber> has proven over and over in these forums his integrity and intelligence and I know without a doubt that what he said happened, happened exactly the way he describes it. And I trust him without any verification at all, thank you very much!

Good for you. You still miss the point. It very well may have happened precisely as the OP stated. That doesn't eliminate the chance for confusion. In a text-based medium (guild chat in this case), there exists the potential for all kinds of misinterpretations, etc. I'm still guessing that the OP tried to make some kind of joke that wasn't received well (all the while having nothing but honorable intention). It's just a simple fact of the matter that REASONABLE parents don't jump on a kid's video game and start chewing out perfect strangers without cause. My spidey sense tells me there's something more than meets the eyes here

[voodoodad]

Well, guys... Thats it for me... Guess I'll just have to quit WoW because I'm a BAD GM, seeing as I like to run a casual guild with members who behave appropriately. I KNEW I should've been running a HARD-CORE guild, where we do nothing but worry about raids and gear and such things. I SHOULD'VE been running a guild where members are expected to act any way they wish because no kids are allowed! I SHOULD'VE been running a guild where I was more worried about a player's gear than the content of his/her character! DAMMIT! I've been SO STUPID! And shame on you too, us<insertnumber>! Cuz it sounds like you run pretty much the same kind of guild!

Well, anyway... It's been nice talking to you guys, but Republic has shown me the tragic error of my ways, and now I take my leave. I shant be back... Ever... Never...
/rant off

[voodoodad]

Well, don't nobody jump in and say anything like "NO, Voodoo! Please don't go!"

Jeez, I do and do and do for you people and these are the thanks I get!

/hissyfit off

[Torhal]

Originally Posted by voodoodad Well, don't nobody jump in and say anything like "NO, Voodoo! Please don't go!" Jeez, I do and do and do for you people and these are the thanks I get! /hissyfit off

You haven't shown enough skin, is all.

[Republic]

Originally Posted by voodoodad Well, guys... Thats it for me... Guess I'll just have to quit WoW because I'm a BAD GM, seeing as I like to run a casual guild with members who behave appropriately. I KNEW I should've been running a HARD-CORE guild, where we do nothing but worry about raids and gear and such things. I SHOULD'VE been running a guild where members are expected to act any way they wish because no kids are allowed! I SHOULD'VE been running a guild where I was more worried about a player's gear than the content of his/her character! DAMMIT! I've been SO STUPID! And shame on you too, us<insertnumber>! Cuz it sounds like you run pretty much the same kind of guild! Well, anyway... It's been nice talking to you guys, but Republic has shown me the tragic error of my ways, and now I take my leave. I shant be back... Ever... Never... /rant off

Dude...there's a small chance that if your members behave appropriately, the range of ages is probably small and that works for you. There are some folks out here though that simply will not join a guild full of teenagers. The worst part of online gaming is well, other gamers sometimes. You don't have to be a hardcore raider to want to avoid being around a bunch of stupid damned kids.

One other thing, I have no doubt you two run the same kind of guild