WoW UI AddOn Development Policy discussion thread - Page 32

spiel2001 · 03-27-09, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Tekkub

Well yea, I'm sure in the bowels of the rental agreement there's bits about you not being allowed to make any sort of modification or even routine maintenance to the car. But you could, for example, hook up your iPod if you don't like the radio.

Yeah... but the part that you're skipping over is that the rental agency (in this case Bliz) has said that you CAN install after market kits on their car... you just can't sell after market kits.

Zidomo · 03-27-09, 06:13 PM

Aghhhh...the dreaded car analogies.

True, they are essentially saying "you can't sell aftermarket kits for this (car)". The problem with this car analogy--as is usually the case with such analogies--is that who-owns-what-and-what-the-law-is is quite different in each case.

Here, Blizzard is now saying is that you can't use _their_ car (WoW, which is copyrighted & owned by Blizzard) to sell/profit from aftermarket kits (third-party addons).

(Which, as others have brought up, may have copyright law implications. Will see how it pans out).

spiel2001 · 03-27-09, 06:26 PM

One really simple question: why

Why do they care?

Why bother opening the can of worms when #2-5 solved the problem

If the mods are not competing with you, and you benefit from their existence, WHY would you want to prohibit their sale?

Why do you want to prohibit someone from selling after market kits for your car brand when you're perfectly okay with them giving those kits away and you are not selling your own line of after market kits?

Why why why

~grin~

Petrah · 03-27-09, 07:33 PM

Interesting.

Fatal said on Fri, Mar 27 2009 6:30 PM:
Not what happened. Blizzard told us in December we could make money from ads like they allow wow websites to do and they "suggested" we release a full version for free, but we could put ads in it. We followed that course and they did what they did. We never would have released an ads version if they didn't suggest it. It was a pain in the butt for us to add and a waste of time.

Source.

Sepioth · 03-27-09, 08:08 PM

That's interesting ... chances are thought the people the the Carbonite crew talked to was not knowledgeable into what they (Carbonite) could actually do and what and what was not allowed. They where most likely just a customer service rep and with there being nothing of this nature in their little onscreen help program they saw no issue with it.

But they did just release the latest version completely for free. the download page now has a PayPal donate system on it.

Interesting side note is the code in the lua is still encrypted

... for now.

I believe they will soon be opening it up as one of the comments by Faatal was the fact that it's user will be able to make plug ins easier now and bug reports will be easier now too. Supposedly this will happen with 3.0.

Sythalin · 03-27-09, 08:20 PM

And now I'll try it. And if I like it, I'll donate. See? Not that hard to get ppl to donate.

What I find interesting is that they release the full version on their main site, but pull it from all other addon sites in protest of the "Da Rulez". If they were protesting, wouldn't they simply not release it anywhere?

/cast flameshield

Sepioth · 03-27-09, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by ChaosInc

And now I'll try it. And if I like it, I'll donate. See? Not that hard to get ppl to donate.

What I find interesting is that they release the full version on their main site, but pull it from all other addon sites in protest of the "Da Rulez". If they were protesting, wouldn't they simply not release it anywhere?

/cast flameshield

They pulled it BEFORE the rules.

Carb Quest was pulled because they release the full version with the ads in it.

At least thats what I thought anyway cause I could have sworn the Quest one was gone when the Free version came out .... ehhh whatever .. doesn't really matter.

Haavok · 03-27-09, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Sepioth

They pulled it BEFORE the rules.

Carb Quest was pulled because they release the full version with the ads in it.

At least thats what I thought anyway cause I could have sworn the Quest one was gone when the Free version came out .... ehhh whatever .. doesn't really matter.

No, Quest was pulled after the policy change.

Once 3.0 is ready (hopefully early next week) it will be available here as Carbonite (not Carbonite Quest).

Xruptor · 03-28-09, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by Slakah

I think that is true for a select few of both sides of the argument.

My favourites thus far are:

Blizz are claiming ownership of all addons.
= Blizzard are going to sue everyone in sight.
Lua was created by Blizzard.
This new policy means Bliz are communist and greedy at the same time.
Addons are some how a special case compared to other programs.
This is all an evil plot by Blizzard to be able to steal addon code and to disable addon functionality.
Being pro new policy makes you spineless.
Addons should be free because I don't want to pay for them.
Only good can come from for sale addons.
Blizzard blocking your addon from functioning affects your IP rights.
All addon authors are against the new policy.

I'm sure theres some more which I've failed to mention.

The LUA was created by Blizzard one always makes me laugh

It's surprises me how many people fail to even GOOGLE up LUA before they say something like that. Oh well, there are stupid people in the world.

Xruptor · 03-28-09, 07:53 AM

Seems like Carbonite is now available to users as a free download. They are removing their subscription based service. Although there are donations buttons on the download page. I kinda like how they made it easy to pick out the value buttons

Usually when I make donations I hate having to type in all my darn info and an amount for anything I donate too.

Their code is still encrypted though. I wonder if they will comply with #2 of Blizzard UI policy. Well at least they are taking steps forward which is a good sign

Oh BTW Fatal posted the annoucement here: http://www.carboniteaddon.com/cs/for...900.aspx#11900

2) Add-on code must be completely visible.
The programming code of an add-on must in no way be hidden or obfuscated, and must be freely accessible to and viewable by the general public.

Haavok · 03-28-09, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Derkyle

Seems like Carbonite is now available to users as a free download. They are removing their subscription based service. Although there are donations buttons on the download page. I kinda like how they made it easy to pick out the value buttons

Usually when I make donations I hate having to type in all my darn info and an amount for anything I donate too.

We did that partly for convenience and partly to prevent $0.01 donations

Originally Posted by Derkyle

Their code is still encrypted though. I wonder if they will comply with #2 of Blizzard UI policy. Well at least they are taking steps forward which is a good sign

We're in the process of releasing 3.0 which should be out early next week and it will be fully compliant.

spiel2001 · 03-28-09, 09:04 AM

I just had an idea which could be a theory for why Bliz has taken the stance preventing the sale of addons and it has absolutely nothing to do with IP, copyrights or anything else software related.

The bottom line is that addons are an aftermarket that trades in goods and services which are related to WoW (doh!). I wonder if Bliz is concerned that in sanctioning the right of this market to exist they are weakening their legal claims in other after markets... books, trading cards, figures, etc.

Mind you... I still don't think they have a legal leg to stand on with #1 in their policy, but I do now wonder if this isn't perhaps the motivation behind their attempt to claim the right.

EDIT: my usual raft of typos

Haavok · 03-28-09, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by spiel2001

I just had an idea which could be a theory for why Bliz has taken the stance preventing the sale of addons and it has absolutely nothing to do with IP, copyrights or anything else software related.

The bottom line is that addons are an aftermarket that trades in goods and services which are related to WoW (doh!). I wonder if Bliz is concerned that in sanctioning the right of this market to exist they are weakening their legal claims in other after markets... books, trading cards, figures, etc.

Mind you... I still don't think they have a legal leg to stand on with #1 in their policy, but I do now wonder if this isn't perhaps the motivation behind their attempt to claim the right.

EDIT: my usual raft of typos

I think that is definitely part of the equation. If they introduced some form of licensing program that problem would be solved though.

Xruptor · 03-28-09, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Haavok

We did that partly for convenience and partly to prevent $0.01 donations

Yeah it makes things so much easier. Usually people have to type all the information in and it can get tedious.

Haavok I would put another button from the 25$ to 50$ range

Hell I know I would click it. 30-40 maybe? The jump from 25$ to 50$ is pretty big

.

Haavok · 03-28-09, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Derkyle

Yeah it makes things so much easier. Usually people have to type all the information in and it can get tedious.

Haavok I would put another button from the 25$ to 50$ range

Hell I know I would click it. 30-40 maybe? The jump from 25$ to 50$ is pretty big

.

We'll throw up a $35 button ... and I'll keep my eye out for your donation

Xruptor · 03-28-09, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Haavok

We'll throw up a $35 button ... and I'll keep my eye out for your donation

Already did

Just wanted to show my appreciation for an addon I've used for a very long time.

Haavok · 03-28-09, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Derkyle

Already did

Just wanted to show my appreciation for an addon I've used for a very long time.

Thanks, much appreciated!

***Cairenn*** · 03-28-09, 12:17 PM

spiel2001 · 03-28-09, 12:17 PM

For the record... I've written an open letter to Bliz and posted it in a few places as well as sending it to them directly.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...19602520&sid=1

Zigg · 03-28-09, 02:17 PM

I hope this is on-topic, but I apologize and understand if it's not.

I would like to develop and sell commercial addons for an MMO. Blizzard will no longer allow me to do this for their game.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for information on whether Warhammer Online and/or Lord of the Rings online allow commercial addons?

While I was close to public release of my commercial addons for WoW, this policy turns that effort into a deadend. Thankfully, I guess, I do not have users I have to agonize over how to properly support due to this policy change.

Honestly, as a player, I am more hurt by Blizzard's choice of how to implement this policy than I am as a developer. I strongly believe that players should have as much choice as possible when it comes to addons, and eliminating addons written by people who would prefer to make more than poverty level income in return for publishing an addon hurts players significantly.

Thanks in advance for any help.

-Zigg