How interesting (MMO-Champ leaks new expansion info)

[Cralor]

Originally Posted by Slakah tbh this is probably the first expansion announcement for WoW where I don't have any qualms with any of the changes they are making. Finally Blizzard are addressing one of my major issues with MMO's in two interesting ways, phasing and just drastically changing old previously static (and often deserted) content. The simplification of stats imo is much needed as well, theorycrafting isn't fun! Theres just a lot of things to be excited about with this expansion and it can't come soon enough. P.S. Blizz is definitely refocussing this game towards gameplay, and for the better me thinks. P.P.S I wonder if they're going to change the original WoWs racials, as the goblins/worgens ones seem pretty imba.

Yes they will be re-looking/re-doing all of the racials to be more like the Goblin ones.

[Syxx]

Outside Undercity now and Outside Uncercity after. How cool does that look?

I think changing stuff around is a great idea. MMOs tend to be very static and it's nice to see a Dev team change things in a big way and smacking the old content with a giant world smashing cataclysm works for me.

[Tristanian]

Considering the latest announcements on stats, "paths" and guilds, I'm going to be completely honest here. While there are certainly some merit to some of the "new" stuff being added, I feel that ultimately, the game is being watered down even more, with little reason. To be perfectly honest, I never thought I'd see the day, where for example, a statistic such as ArP or defense even would be considered "too confusing". Granted that not everyone enjoys theorycrafting, but truth be told, there are countless of ways one can get "help" on the matter (if he really requires it), from addons to entire forums and discussions dedicated to specific classes and specs. Who knows, perhaps said person can educate himself more on a particular class and understand a few things that may improve his own experience. It's not always black and white.

I'm not sure what the general consensus is, but as far as I'm concerned, World of Warcraft was never a particularly complicated game, in the same sense a lot of other MMOs and generally RPGs are. On the contrary I'd say. The fact that you can just load the game, spent only a few minutes familiarizing yourself with the controls and world and then simply...play, is what has largely contributed to its success. Quite simply, anyone can play WoW no matter his/her age and considering the current incarnation at least, it isn't really particularly hard to "master" the game with at least one character class (though this can vary on occasion).

Again, considering the latest changes in the expansions and content patches, character development is more simplified than ever. Everyone has a choice, be it a hardcore raider, or someone that just logs in for a couple of hours every day. I sincerely believe that Blizzard has made it painfully easy for people to acquire both gear and achievements, so that they may feel "successful" or at the very least satisfied from their playtime. As a 4 year hardcore raider in various top 20-30 guilds, I would even go on a limb and say that the game in its current incarnation, indirectly encourages the more-often-than-not "not so skilled" players by enabling them to procure rewards with minimal effort. A smart business decision for sure, but one that I'm not particularly font of (and yes I can see the "this game may no longer be for you" comments coming). The truth is, this matter has been argued and beaten to death, on multiple occasions and ultimately it depends on point of view, past experience and different play styles, so it is understandable that people may/will object.

As for the "old" Azeroth, I have always been a strong advocate of that content, but as Republic pointed out (perhaps not in these words), it was a different kind of game back in the day and no matter the nostalgia or whatever, nothing is going to bring it back, in the exact same sense. I feel that Blizzard's plan with Cataclysm is to mainly attract new players that have not had a chance to experience WoW, by drastically altering the "vanilla experience", while making it even easier for them to feel part of the world and the community. While this is admirable, it personally leaves me with many questions and doubts. We'll see how things turn out I guess. If the information about Cataclysm coming on Q4 2010 is to be trusted, then I'd personally expect that a great deal of things will significantly differ when the expansion is released, than the current announcements.

[Slakah]

The changes to the stat system are definitely "back to basics" it's very much reminiscent of Warcraft 3 and imo is a vast improvement, no the current system isn't particularly confusing, but there are so many variables associated with them that often the only way to decide which gear is better is via a program (i.e. Rawr) and really weighing spending the time weighing up different pieces of gear isn't what I consider "fun". I'm especially interested in the changes to talents with the promise of removing the generally boring passive gains which many boring cookie cutter builds heavily relies upon.

P.S. Looks like I've found something which I don't like Cross Server LFG, eugh... I hated it when they introduced cross server battlegrounds, it ruined the sence of rivalry between the horde and alliance on our server and previous to the change there was a feeling of commaradary between team mates of the same server, and paved the way for what we have now which is battlegrounds full of CS kiddies spouting "leet speak". If this change goes through I feel our 5 man instances will be left in a similar state.

[Tristanian]

Actually the talent changes to eliminate small increments of 1% for X stat, kinda makes sense and I agree that should be attributed to the positive aspects of the expansion.

[Torhal]

I'm failing to understand why this is being called an "expansion" when, in reality, it's nearly a complete replacement game. They cannot simply change the terrain and leave all the old questlines intact - the entire game must be redone to fit the lore.

[Yhor]

Originally Posted by Torhal I'm failing to understand why this is being called an "expansion" when, in reality, it's nearly a complete replacement game. They cannot simply change the terrain and leave all the old questlines intact - the entire game must be redone to fit the lore.

I'm not certain, and I can't find it, but I think I read somewhere that it would be phased. Sorry to reply with no source, it's possible that I misunderstood.

[Syxx]

Cataclysm FAQ on MMO-Camp

Q: Which classic zones have been overhauled? What are some examples of changes? A: Nearly all of the game’s original zones are being altered to some degree, but the extent of the changes varies by zone. For example, Darkshore is flooded and has been completely redesigned with all new quest hubs. The Barrens have been split in two; one half is for low-level players and the other is for higher-level players. Azshara is now a low-level zone for Horde players and connects directly to Orgrimmar.

Q: Will I need the expansion to be able to experience the Cataclysm changes? A: When the Cataclysm occurs, it will occur for all players, whether they have purchased the expansion or not--you will no longer be to play in the original version of Kalimdor or the Eastern Kingdoms. However, certain features such as the new zones, new races, and new level cap will only be accessible to players who purchase the expansion.

Q: Will “phasing” be used more extensively in World of Warcraft: Cataclysm? A: Yes. We’ve come up with a number of new, cool ways to using phasing since we introduced it in Wrath of the Lich King, and plan to use it more extensively to change the world as players progress. We are also now able to phase terrain, which players will see in the starting areas for the goblins and worgen. We’re also adding some UI improvements to help determine when another player is in a different “phase” from you.

Not sure if that answers any questions. That's all I found with a simple quick search. To lazy at the moment to look for more.

[Republic]

I personally feel like the game has gotten as "large" as it's roughly going to go because of the fact Blizzard seems willing to "sell out" the old players/game/lore in favor of attracting new. Old players who barely recognize a game they've played for 5 years will leave, wondering where their game went that they loved. New players coming in won't know the difference. Case in point, a snippet of a conversation on LFG in my Aggramar realm earlier tonight...

Player A : "LFM AQ40, 60+ welcome, all classes"

Player B (a level 80 shaman) : "What's AQ40?"

Now, while I realize no one person knows every single aspect of the game, but the fact that a person can level 80 times in today's game without even so much as hearing about a once major instance is well, sad. My point of disgust is not that every player needs to have the same values and goals and should all follow the old world content as closely as some of us who were max level 60's for quite a long time before BC came along, but it's the content, lore, and work that went into the old world that's being missed, ignored, and never experienced. It seems to me that with each passing expansion, they are figuring out new ways of getting players past all this old content ASAP in favor of adding more idiots to the level 80 grind for new vanity pets, or new currency for only marginally better gear (which for paladins, endgame armor never looks good anyway, who wants it?). I mean, why do we need to fast track past all this stuff?

BTW, I still think horde paladins and alliance shamans are abominations. Don't get me wrong, I have liked a few things in each of the existing expansions, but the more crazy crap I read about Cataclysm, the more I begin looking for a new game. Bottom line for me - everything I've read sounds dumb as hell. I'm hoping someone wakes up before we have a "new Coke" situation on our hands.

I'm not opposed to expansions, but let them be actual expansions. Leave the old crap alone and add to it. EXPAND the game. If you cast avenger's shield, you do NOT give milk! Know what I'm saying? What the hell are they thinking?!? I simply don't understand why they are willing to screw up the existing game/lore/whatever in favor of making it all seem new with stupid changes.

I'm telling you, someone important is on crack or on the verge of a breakdown! And yes, I'm not opposed to the idea it may be me as I sure as hell don't understand some of these potential "changes". I find it ironic that some of the people commenting about it thought all of this might be another april fool's type joke. To me, this fact alone speaks volumes about "Cataclysm".

[voodoodad]

The more I read about it the more the title "Cataclysm" seems apropriate. For one thing, the only "expansiony" (yes, I know that's not a real word, sue me) is the addition of two new playable races and a new (and kind of weak) level cap. And maybe a few new instances for the higher level cap. Since the rest of it sounds as if its going to be made available to all players, even those who don't buy the "expansion", there really doesn't seem to be a whole lot of point to paying for it. Sounds more like an incredibly huge patch day is coming down the tunnel at us like a runaway train.

/groan

[Slakah]

They're adding new zones, major changes to existing (often dull and mostly empty) zones, big changes to 2 classes Warlocks and Hunters, major overhaul of itemisation, a whole new glyth tree available to every class, a new profession, new instances, much wider use of phasing so it will be possible to an entire zone to change completely while leveling there, new instances, new raid content, new monsters, major overhaul of the talent system making it less dull, possibly new or improved racials for most races and thats just the stuff I can recall off the top of my head.

definitely sounds like an expansion to me.

[Spookie455]

Originally Posted by Slakah thats just the stuff I can recall off the top of my head.

You forgot: Guild leveling and rewards, cross server instances for lowbies, massive changes to the factions - an evolution of the lore to expand to current events and rated BGs. :P

Yeah seems like a normal content patch to me. Most definitely shouldn't charge for a complete revamp of two continents and new islands being brought in and expanded upon. No siree. Doesn't seem like a imob knee jerk reaction at all. Nuh-huh.

[Cralor]

Cross-server LFG is planned for patch 3.3.0, but yes I agree, it is enough for an expansion.

As for the old instances, I have tried some of them. I did start before BC, but by then it was released when I was around level 50, so I never really got to experience end-game level 60. At the time I was sad, and I hope to continue to play some of the old ones just for fun. But, there always has to be progression so I think the best way they are trying to do this (with lore working out really well) is what this expansion is partly about. I'm excited to be able to battle Onyxia, Ragnaros, and maybe potentially other old bosses that I never got to really experience previously.

[acapela]

Originally Posted by Cralor As for the old instances, I have tried some of them.

in a perfect world, perhaps Blizzard would have anticipated this issue of "content re-use" and structured content (at least instance content) to scale indefinitely as a function of player capability (based on character level, based on average item level, based on a fine-grained player-selected difficulty, based on any/all of a whole variety of things). you could have fun with everything, from Ragefire/Deadmines to whatever, at 60/70/80/90/100/...

that would not have been easy, and if they had done all that, WoW would be a very very different game (better or worse is arguable)... but in any event, they didn't do that. they went with a static/scripted/pre-balanced/consensual-world approach.

given all of that, as a player who has been doing WoW since the original public/open beta, its very nice to see them willing to invest the effort to revamp "old" content to make it simultaneously "new" to veteran players and keep it accessible to new players (and the one thing about these expansions so far that has bothered me most is this "throw it all away, start the progression over again" track they seem(ed) to be on). they also seem to be making the whole concept more cohesive (from tactical enhancements like flying mounts everywhere and additional race/class combinations, to more strategic things like writing the "classic" world back into the "expansion" storyline, rather than just forking all new content off into some new/discontinuous/self-contained/modular area somewhere).

so, maybe they are choosing a new direction here. if so...

hopefully this will at the very least make your next big level grind enjoyable (for myself, i have a whole team of Worgen percolating in the back of my head; planning to multibox them ). maybe not so much a grind. i think it will increase the scope of what we have "not seen before", and given this sort of design philosophy, that effectively equates to "replayability", which is the lifeblood of all of this. and if this is successful, we will see more (or even somewhat continuous) "renovation" of "classic" content, which i think would be a good thing.

[VincentSDSH]

Originally Posted by Republic Player A : "LFM AQ40, 60+ welcome, all classes" Player B (a level 80 shaman) : "What's AQ40?" Now, while I realize no one person knows every single aspect of the game, but the fact that a person can level 80 times in today's game without even so much as hearing about a once major instance is well, sad. My point of disgust is not that every player needs to have the same values and goals and should all follow the old world content as closely as some of us who were max level 60's for quite a long time before BC came along, but it's the content, lore, and work that went into the old world that's being missed, ignored, and never experienced.

The old always say this about the young. Hell, I could say it about FOSSIL drivers, TSR programs, BBSs, FReq, and FidoNet packetmail: damn kids don't appreciate it and would just as soon ignore it.

Face it, it's the MMO equivelent of getting ready to demand those damned kids get off your e-Lawn

[Republic]

Originally Posted by VincentSDSH The old always say this about the young. Hell, I could say it about FOSSIL drivers, TSR programs, BBSs, FReq, and FidoNet packetmail: damn kids don't appreciate it and would just as soon ignore it. Face it, it's the MMO equivelent of getting ready to demand those damned kids get off your e-Lawn

Nah, the point wasn't that people would just as soon ignore it, it's that the developers are trying to fast track people past all of it. Does anyone know why? I sure don't. Why develop such a great game if your expansions only serve to zoom people past it and render it "obsolete" to all but the loreaholics (who should all have major problems with the crap coming in Cataclysm) or people who enjoy seeing the complete game from every aspect?

I have far too many other complaints about those "damned kids" on my e-lawn.

[Cyn325]

I didn't start playing until like a month or 2 before Burning Crusade came out but I think the expansion has a lot of potential. I got interested in it because I played the first 3 games and have always been into the "lore". I'm not a hardcore gamer but a casual one. I actually prefer games that have a story behind them (weird, I know) & I actually think that this expansion not only fits with the lore but continues the story. It continues it in a much different way tho than the previous expansions did. I'm looking forward to it myself.

[us2006027321]

You know, I look at this expansion, and I see something beautiful disappearing. It has been on its way out for a while, and I was preparing myself for it. I didn't think it would happen so soon, but I was expecting it.

As technology progresses, so must the things we do with it. As better graphics become more easily programmed, rendered, and displayed, games like World of Warcraft need to keep up with that progression. Right now, Azeroth has a lot of dead space whether that is in terms of content or graphics. If Blizzard wants to continue making money off their gold-mine, they're going to need to make these changes. If they don't, it'll fade into retirement in much the same way Diablo II did. If that happens, it can't be pay-to-play anymore.

WoW is my hobby, and while I may not appreciate what's happening to it, I'm going to keep up with it. I think this is a necessary rebirth for the game. I'm not thrilled that things I love are undergoing a serious overhaul, but I consider that Blizzard doesn't want to alienate their pre-BC die-hards, and I feel good that they will be able to offer me content I will appreciate.

In spite of all the warm fuzzies I just spewed all over your screen, I remain skeptical, and I agree that...

THOSE D*MNED NUBKINS NEED TO GET OFF MY E-LAWN!

LoL

[Cralor]

I think and hope you will enjoy it when it is released, us2006027321.

One thing I want to also state is that the Stat changes aren't as bad as people might think. A good example I like to look at is gems. Right now, there is Agility gems and Attack Power gems. Why should I have to go to a website such as www.elitistjerks.com to find out which will benefit me more? I have to find out if 10 Agility or 20 AP is better. Also, I shouldn't need to download EnhSim and Rawr to find out if my DPS will increase with a different combination of gear or weapon changes. I just recently had to do this to see which weapon I should replace (Main Hand or Off Hand) with my new One-Hand Mace. The stat changes will simplify this by allowing you to just be like "Agility is good for my class so that is one of the gems I will use". I don't see why this is a bad thing.

[lanacan]

The only thing I don't like is that I have to work my butt off now that I've gone back after 4 years to playing Horde and I want to get all teh achievements done i can in the "old world" before this x-pac comes out....


the problem is that Full time work and School and non-gaming Girl Friend make that hard as hell to do