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09-13-08, 03:04 AM   #21
kerrang
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Originally Posted by Duugu View Post
There are 14 negative and 0 (zero, none, nada) positive replies.
What does that mean to you?
Froma community of people dedicated to making (amongst other things) 50 different anti-spam addons - it's not a great surprise

Given the amount of 'noise' which exists in-game alrady tho - I do think there's a SLIGHT (but as I said, not unexpected) air of over-reaction perhaps...

But anyway!
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09-13-08, 05:08 AM   #22
Cairenn
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Well, I'm not "dedicated to making anti-spam" addons, and I don't think it's a particularly good idea, so .....

As is oft said, "If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question."

You asked for opinions and that's precisely what you got. However, ultimately it is your addon and you should do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't violate any of Blizzard's rules.
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09-13-08, 07:29 AM   #23
lieandswell
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Originally Posted by kerrang View Post
It's a VERY obvious way to promote your addons tho - what do you lot think - good idea or bad?
I'm all for it as long as it also makes an animated gnome appear on the user's screen suggesting other buffs you might also want to put on the group. And then the entire screen goes blue. And stays that way.

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09-13-08, 08:55 AM   #24
Mikord
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I am also not "dedicated to making anti-spam addons" either. However, over the course of playing WoW since original beta, I have seen various mods do this and the only thing I've ever heard after a while is something similar to "Dude turn that off", or "Ignored."

Your stance is that one message isn't spam, but the problem is that it avalanches. It's not just one message once more than one person starts using the mod. It's one per person. Then if every mod starts doing it, now it's one per person, per mod.

Imagine a 25 man raid with everyone using your mod and 7 other mods that do the same thing. 25 * 8 = 200 spam messages for a variety of actions. The last thing people want to see every time they join a raid is 200 different messages from all the different mods each of the raid members is using constantly spamming them under a variety of circumstances. It just becomes irritating.

Last edited by Mikord : 09-13-08 at 08:58 AM.
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09-13-08, 09:11 AM   #25
Zyonin
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Originally Posted by Polina View Post
My immediate thoughts:
1. What happens if most addons start doing this?
2. How annoying will it be in a raid if everyone uses one or more addons that do sometehing like this?
3. You can't turn off everyone else's spam, only your own.
Polina and Mikord pretty much sum up my thoughts on the OP's idea. Trust me, if a mod starts spewing adverts (of any kind), then I will move to muzzle it fast even if it means hunting down the offending Lua code and commenting it out/nuking it. If some other's player mod is what is spewing the spam, then that player gets to join my Ignore list if they don't muzzle their mod. There is enough "noise" in game before the start of a raid/BG that I don't any more.

To sum it up, the OP's idea = Bad idea.
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09-13-08, 09:52 AM   #26
Kleo
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I think it's a terrible idea. I don't care what add-on someone else is using. And if I did care, I'd ask them.

Also, several raids don't have all the text spam you imply. Requests for buffs and such handled through vent and whispers, and raid chat used only for the important stuff. Any kind of advertising is going to have attention drawn to it, and probably a lot of annoyance. (And consequently, the raid leader asking the offending party to either turn it off or leave raid until they can figure it out.) And if there is a lot of spam and you don't think it'll really be noticed? Why bother then? All it's done is make something important scroll by all the faster so more people will miss it.
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09-13-08, 11:25 AM   #27
Dridzt
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For what it's worth, Mikord's post mirrors my feelings exactly.
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09-13-08, 11:42 AM   #28
Elloria
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Originally Posted by Cairenn View Post
Well, I'm not "dedicated to making anti-spam" addons, and I don't think it's a particularly good idea, so .....

As is oft said, "If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question."

You asked for opinions and that's precisely what you got. However, ultimately it is your addon and you should do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't violate any of Blizzard's rules.
I don't think its the fact that he "doesn't" like the answers he got. He did ask for suggestions/thoughts on the matter and he got that. I think its the i dunno...way people talked to him about it which got him on the defensive side. Some of these responses seemed to be directed right at him if you ask me. If i were him writing this post i would have gotten defensive as well.

My 2 cents
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09-13-08, 12:07 PM   #29
kerrang
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I'm the sort of person who tends to play "devils advocate" and I'm obviously "on the fence" about this idea or I'd have done it already - so when people started saying "it's SPAM" or "it's a BAD idea" I was always going to take the other side of the argument - because that's how I think you get discussion going (rather than everyone just agreeing with the last guy)

On the 'dedicated to making anti-spam addons' thing - all I meant was that there are a LOT of anti-spam addons (there really are!!) and addons are generally about making the game more 'how you want it' - so it's not greatly surprising to see the addon-developer community being firmly on the side of addons NOT doing anything they can't directly control - it wasn't in ANY way a 'dig'...

--

So I thought a test was in order - I made a 1 line 'SPAM' macro and I ran 6 AVs (using the macro once during preparation) to see what happened.

I was aware that I was likely grouping with many of the same people each time and that I had a good chance of having someone moan at me but I thought it worth the experiment as I was in there testing something out anyway

What happened?

3 people asked me what my mod actually did - 2 of those went on to ask where to get it and a few people whispered me thanks for buffs (something which seldoms happens to me in BGs).

Perhaps it was just the novelty and I would eventually have been lambasted for it - but I had a wedding to go to so I stopped after 6 games.

It certainly wasn't the 'end of the world' tho - in fact it was quite positive really.

I don't think I'd enable it for other people using my addons - because I don't think I have their permission to do that - but I'll certainly click that macro again if only to see how long it takes to get me some abuse - purely for scientific purposes of course

I think there's a place for this - is all I'm saying...
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09-13-08, 01:49 PM   #30
Kaomie
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At least I would drop the exact URL link, as it could be directly flagged as offgame website advertising (even if completely WoW-related) and it really sticks out the normal chat flow.

Maybe if you put different humorous sentences so it is does not sound too boring and annoying, like "All buffs brought to you by O-Wheely! addon available at WowInterface" and etc.
Meh, still I would personally /ignore it quick I think 8•
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09-13-08, 02:28 PM   #31
break19
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Originally Posted by Kaomie View Post
At least I would drop the exact URL link, as it could be directly flagged as offgame website advertising (even if completely WoW-related) and it really sticks out the normal chat flow.

Maybe if you put different humorous sentences so it is does not sound too boring and annoying, like "All buffs brought to you by O-Wheely! addon available at WowInterface" and etc.
Meh, still I would personally /ignore it quick I think 8
I am reminded of my "old school" days writing mircscripts and such.. The ones that were constantly advertising what script they were, etc, were nearly always the ones the "leet noobs" wanted, and everyone else laughed at. "7Th Sphere" comes to mind..

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09-13-08, 02:38 PM   #32
Dreadlorde
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I would just comment it out in the code, because it would be very annoying.

My $0.02 (USD).
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09-13-08, 02:49 PM   #33
Kleo
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Maybe I overestimate the politeness of people, but I think in a BG/PuG situation, you may not hear as much complaining. People will ignore you or add you to their spam filter, or complain to friends/guildies. Like if I pug with a mage who has one of those super annoying mods to say "funny" things whenever they sheep. I hold my tongue, get really pissed off, and complain to my guild. And probably make a note in a mod to remember never to group with that person again. In a guild raid though, it would be more likely to be addressed right away. In my experience, the best higher-end raid leaders are kind of on the intolerant side and likely to speak out or kick you out, and I don't mind that so much if looking for progression. Guess my round-about point is that just because people don't give negative feedback doesn't mean that people don't intensely dislike extra spam in the game.

You are likely to be thanked more though. People who'd normally feel indifferent to or wouldn't notice what you do think the message is directed at them and fumble for a polite response.

Last edited by Kleo : 09-13-08 at 02:56 PM.
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09-13-08, 03:51 PM   #34
VincentSDSH
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Originally Posted by kerrang View Post
I don't really care how many people use my addons - but I AM interested in the process by which people choose and use addons - hence my curiousity on the issue as a whole...
That should be pretty straight forward to understand using elements of basic human psychology.

Originally Posted by kerrang View Post
I disagree that a single message during BG Preparation or at the start of an instance is 'SPAM' - anymore than the dozens of "buff plz" or "Kings plz" or "lazy mage give INT" messages you see everyday are...
That sort of thing is spam, not to mention inconsiderate and juvenile -- and if someone did forget, polite trumps whiny/demanding. I don't raid with people that inconsiderate, don't group with them if humanly possible, and do my PvPing with folks who are in the same vent server (gotta love my server) practicing some mature sensibilities -- sure, it happens with pvp pickups but not that often.

Originally Posted by kerrang View Post
As for the idea that someone would quit a group over 1 message - anyone that "precious" is welcome to leave my groups as soon as possible plz & thx
Thus why you can't seem to grasp the idea that advertising in-game is a bad idea. If that's the level of respect you have for the people you group with then I'm more than happy to exclude you. I'll put up with sheep-spam mods, and same for warlocks, the RP mods, even the annoying as hell ones that do emotes and says on crits or during combat -- it's lost it's shine after the first pull or three; I'll put up with people who are grumpy, think they know a class they've played better than God, and people who think they are God; I'll even put up with some high-maintenance characteristics of the emo crowd if it'll get the pug moving. However, I won't put up with people who lack basic respect. Advertising races over the line just slightly behind someone hurling racial epithets.

I would assume that there are some who won't mind it, some who would even enjoy it -- there are after all groups who enjoy tossing around the aforementioned racial epithets or assumed sexual orientation or even the usual sexist tripe -- but I'm not among that crowd.

Originally Posted by kerrang View Post
Hell - if I could write an addon to detect the moody/twitchy/"just looking for an excuse to quit" players before you've started an instance I'd need no advertising to make it the most popular addon EVAR!
Heh, you don't know me. I do, though, find it interesting that you resort to character assassination and personal attacks as a way of responding. I didn't attack you, and if I attacked anything at all it was the idea you proposed. Yet your response says volumes about you and the kind of person you are -- and sheds light on why you'd think in-game advertising was a cool idea.

(I'll assume you'll need at least one more post to go after my character again so go ahead, the floor is yours)
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09-13-08, 04:08 PM   #35
Gello
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To me the issue isn't "it's SPAM", which is axiomatic and not the real problem. Now and then I see a mage give a long speech as a table is being dropped. It's like 3 lines and not a big deal because it's so infrequent. I don't know what mod is doing it but if it blatantly told me the name and url then it'd be a problem.

When a mod blatantly advertises itself to a chat channel it turns its users into advocates doing the word of mouth the mod should earn on its own right. It's disturbingly evil if it requires the user to do it with no option.

It creates a currency for attention. It creates and props up a market to whore for money/donations, ego or (worse) no reason at all.

If it becomes accepted then it will cease to be an option as addons vie for attention and pay-to-use mods will increase as it becomes an actual form of marketing. People won't know or care their mods are advertising because outgoing spam will be surpressed for the user. Opt-outs if they exist will be buried in nested dropdown menus not worth the effort to find. Chat will be a mess for everyone.

It would impede the healthy exchange of ideas and code as those ideas and code get a market value and people try to make an imaginary (or real) buck off other people's work.

People like to believe they are addon-savvy enough to pick the "best" of every mod and most will go on the defensive for something that doesn't need defending if they held back the ads.

It's ADVERTISEMENTS lol. Did anyone ever want more of them while playing? How are spam filtering mods to surpress these advertisements anyway? Will they become huge databases of compare strings?
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09-13-08, 05:38 PM   #36
kerrang
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On the idea of links - I used no link in my 'test' as it seemed overly pushy - I'm interested in a little viral marketting here - not selling Big Macs

Maybe if you put different humorous sentences so it is does not sound too boring and annoying
Humour is undoubtedly the way forward - mixed with scarcity AND people getting benefit from it ofc.

Thus why you can't seem to grasp the idea that advertising in-game is a bad idea.
Because I don't believe it is a 100% across-the-board bad idea or I'd not have started this thread would I?

It's ADVERTISEMENTS lol
You say that as if any advertisements/promotion of any kind - anywhere - is a bad idea? I'm aware some heinous things have been done in the name of selling stuff but you cannot believe the the ENTIRE concept of promoting something is a bad idea??

That's akin to saying that the entire concept of Copyright is rubbish - just because it's an idea which has seen much abuse!?

Last edited by kerrang : 09-13-08 at 05:42 PM.
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09-13-08, 05:39 PM   #37
kerrang
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Heh, you don't know me. I do, though, find it interesting that you resort to character assassination and personal attacks as a way of responding.
I find it interesting you took my comments as being aimed at just you...
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09-13-08, 06:36 PM   #38
Gello
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It's ADVERTISEMENTS lol
You say that as if any advertisements/promotion of any kind - anywhere - is a bad idea? I'm aware some heinous things have been done in the name of selling stuff but you cannot believe the the ENTIRE concept of promoting something is a bad idea??

That's akin to saying that the entire concept of Copyright is rubbish - just because it's an idea which has seen much abuse!?
Don't put words into my mouth. There are lots of things necessary and undesirable. In-game ads are not necessary and not desirable.

Ask yourself this: why is prostitution bad? If you're going to play devil's advocate and say it's not bad then our points of view won't ever mesh and this debate is fruitless.
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09-13-08, 07:22 PM   #39
tralkar
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This would kill your addon, I would not go to the site and look for it after seeing you spam it..
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09-14-08, 12:27 AM   #40
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Turn it around... if you saw an addon ad, would you go download it? I sure as hell wouldn't.
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