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WoWInterface and Curse working together to help protect authors and other site-users - Page 26 - WoWInterface
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04-16-09, 01:42 PM   #501
Irecinius
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They redistribute addons without authors' permissions;
What part of the GNU-GPL
"This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
as published by the Free Software Foundation;"
and or CC (Creative Commons) licences(That is a little more since it let creators choose a set of conditions they wish to apply to their work.)

Attribution
You let others copy, distribute, display, and perform your copyrighted work and derivative works based upon it but only if they give credit the way you request.
Share Alike
You allow others to distribute derivative works only under a license identical to the license that governs your work.
Noncommercial
You let others copy, distribute, display, and perform your work and derivative works based upon it but for noncommercial purposes only.
No Derivative Works
You let others copy, distribute, display, and perform only verbatim copies of your work, not derivative works based upon it.

But there is one thing in common on all 4...
ALL LET YOU DISTRIBUTE THEIR WORK!!!


This instance of blocking wowmatrix.. is not done with nothing in mind other then wowinterface and curse making money from ads off developers
Because wowmatrix is a GOOD THING TO DEVELOPERS!! As it expose the addon to a broader public, with a far easier method to upkeep.


Its easier to maintain and keep upto date the addon on one single website.
The one we use for PREFERENCE,
But if we want to hit most of the public we are obliged to update to any and all websites, because users will most of the time only install ONE (1) addon manager..

Who got the shaft here? users and developers.

Users that lost the ability to have a broad range of addons on one program
developers that lost the ability to expose their addon to the mass more easily without having to remember to update 20x websites when you do a simple fix..

While the only one here that is making money is the one complaining..

There is nothing to be happy about this "NERF"

There is no protection..


Its just sad how can people be so naive
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04-16-09, 01:47 PM   #502
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Not all addons are GPL licensed. Hell, I think the majority of addons have no license at all. No one can distribute them without the author's consent, which is either given by the author choosing to upload it to a site for distrobution, or explicitly stating in the license (as GPL does) that people don't need to get permission to distribute it.

There's some people around here that don't like the GPL at all.

Originally Posted by Irecinius View Post
Who got the shaft here? users and developers.
Nope, just the WM users. Developers that want their addons on WM can (and HAVE) move their stuff over there.

*edit*
And for the record, as far as I'm aware, WM does host the GPL or similarly-licensed addons themselves. They only use other site's bandwidth when they can't legally host it on their own... of course the legality of using the other site's bandwidth is the entire topic of this thread.
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Last edited by Tekkub : 04-16-09 at 01:57 PM.
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04-16-09, 01:48 PM   #503
voodoodad
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Originally Posted by Irecinius View Post


Its just sad how can people be so naive
I won't bother to restate what has been said in defense of WoWI probably 1000 times in this thread other than to say I completely agree with the last line of your post.
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04-16-09, 01:55 PM   #504
Vyper
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Originally Posted by Irecinius View Post
What part of the GNU-GPL
"This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
as published by the Free Software Foundation;"
and or CC (Creative Commons) licences(That is a little more since it let creators choose a set of conditions they wish to apply to their work.)

Attribution
You let others copy, distribute, display, and perform your copyrighted work — and derivative works based upon it — but only if they give credit the way you request.
Share Alike
You allow others to distribute derivative works only under a license identical to the license that governs your work.
Noncommercial
You let others copy, distribute, display, and perform your work — and derivative works based upon it — but for noncommercial purposes only.
No Derivative Works
You let others copy, distribute, display, and perform only verbatim copies of your work, not derivative works based upon it.

But there is one thing in common on all 4...
ALL LET YOU DISTRIBUTE THEIR WORK!!!
Irrelevant, most addons are not liscenced under the GPL.
Furthermore: They were not redistributing them, they were using WoWI to do that. If they were redistributing addons, then there wouldn't be people here crying that WoWM was broken because it would still be working just fine.

Last edited by Vyper : 04-16-09 at 01:59 PM.
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04-16-09, 02:05 PM   #505
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Because wowmatrix is a GOOD THING TO DEVELOPERS!! As it expose the addon to a broader public, with a far easier method to upkeep.
Yeah because a application which causes the most popularly addon communities to go under, and probably cause all mod authors to host their mods separately MUST be a good thing. Yes WoWMatrix is a wonderful thing in the short term, but at the end of the day, it relies completely on the host sites, of which it runs into the ground.
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04-16-09, 02:38 PM   #506
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Originally Posted by Thrillseeker View Post
Nooo, she wouldn't do that. If Cairenn's Life would be better without Curse and Wowinterface she could just quit. I'm still wondering...


Edit:

Cairenn, I for one I'm mad that there is no equal alternative. Your Updater is crap and anything Curse-related is crap anyway.

And I'm mad because I use an adblocker and regardless where I download my stuff from, nobody earns money through ads from me. I like to donor money directly to authors of addons If I like them. And yes, I did that to quite a lot of addon-authors over the course of my wow-career.

Now Instead of just clicking WoWMatrix I have to invest a few minutes every day hunting for updates. And thats a lot coming from one-click-heaven! So I threw away a lot of smaller not-so-importand addons and thats even less businessoportunity for everybody. Meaning you!

With your move everybody loses. Just sayin you should have an equal alternative...
You could always setup a competing website and offer free downloads to the world (assuming any authors would want to deal with your attitude)... Maybe WOWI could leech off you instead of the other way around?? Just a thought...

As for what WOWI and Curse did to block WM I'm OK with it even though I also have gone back to the manual update method as well (no I didn't use WM but WOW UI Updater instead). A few extra mouse clicks won't kill me.
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04-16-09, 02:59 PM   #507
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When do we get back to the drinking and the toasting? I really liked that part.

Here may be some articles of interest:

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives...er_of_free.php

http://blog.thinkflood.com/management/value-free-lunch/

The above at least puts (for me) a better understanding of the crazy (again, to me) attitudes expressed by those who would vilify Curse and WoWUI for protecting their interests.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the add-on community maturing into a valid market. Blizz just did a lot to shoot that in the foot, but I think ultimately they just bought themselves a little time.

Someday we'll all look back on this and.... order a stiff drink.

Cheers!
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04-16-09, 03:02 PM   #508
Cairenn
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Originally Posted by Thengus View Post
Finally as both curse and WOWI has the final goal to implement paid subscriptions, they already consider us customers, the only difference is that they also want to cut out loss from adblockers and get the money directly from us…

Thengus, Shadowsong
Originally Posted by Thengus View Post
They will maintain free accessibility to the site, of course, but they'll start to move every little feature they can think of to the premium memberships…

but I might be wrong…

Thengus, Shadowsong
You are wrong:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...2385&sid=1#213

WoWInterface isn't going to charge for any part of our Updater at all. Full functionality will be available to anyone that uses it, whether they are Premium Members on our site or not. One-button "Update All". No throttling of download speed. The only difference will be if there are ads showing or not.

Favourites Lists have been available on WoWInterface from the very first day of the site. Curse allows Favourites as well.

WoWInterface's updater will have donation links for those authors that have them enabled on the site. Not a penny will go to us, it'll go to whomever you choose.
And:

Originally Posted by Tekkub View Post
They are here already, see those people with yellow names and "site supporter" badges? It's been around for some time now (what, a year?). You get ad-free browsing and some forum perks. There are no plans that we're aware of to move any existing freebies to the premiums, nor are there plans for the updater to be premium when it's done. Curse will have a paid-premium updater, with either a reduced-funtionality or ad-supported free version.

Last edited by Cairenn : 04-16-09 at 03:05 PM.
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04-16-09, 03:25 PM   #509
Irecinius
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Originally Posted by Vyper View Post
Irrelevant, most addons are not liscenced under the GPL.
Furthermore: They were not redistributing them, they were using WoWI to do that. If they were redistributing addons, then there wouldn't be people here crying that WoWM was broken because it would still be working just fine.
Lemme just do a recap of my addons

Cartographer3 (GPL)
BigWigs (CC-NonCommercial)
IceHud (none)
oRA2 (deprecated/none)


Now, acording to http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...02301679&sid=1
The arbirtrary body we are abbiding to:
addons must be free of charge.
code must be completely visible.

Now
The ones without licence have dependency on ACE2/3
Thus inerhereting the LGPL v2.1 + MIT for AceOO-2.0

Since the no charge is in effect and all code is visible it can not charge any fee for the add on, any addon that use is based or mere link to ACE3 is GPL in itself or the author is in VIOLATION of GPL.. and then the addon is the violation.


But why are we hung on Author/developer distribution..

When the sole problem is the LACK of WoWInterface and Curse to do a simple and very very simple thingy

Its called "RSS"

Everyone does nowadays.

The Curse website has the right to distribute by ANY MEANS..

So a very simple

Developer > uploads to curse/WOWINterface > RSS Creates > WoWMatrix Parses RSS > User Download..

Simple? yes, are we all happy? yes we are (WE USERS, WE DEVELOPERS)

Do anyone visit the website using this method? Absolutely, I've aways went to "Visit Curse/WowInterface" link on wowmatrix, because DEVELOPERS Make ****ty TOC's!!! Description sux.

Its not wowmatrix faults for the descriptions, so I went there too to see screenshots and such..


But why do the RIGHT Thing? lets do the one that fills our pocket with money from bystanders.

Wait, is premium free?? Or am I paying you to not show the very same ad that makes you money, I guess would be wrong for you to charge people and still show some ads isn't it?

Last edited by Irecinius : 04-16-09 at 03:29 PM.
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04-16-09, 03:36 PM   #510
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Originally Posted by Irecinius View Post
Since the no charge is in effect and all code is visible it can not charge any fee for the add on, any addon that use is based or mere link to ACE3 is GPL in itself or the author is in VIOLATION of GPL.. and then the addon is the violation.
Ace3 is not GPL. Authors are not forced into any license when embedding Ace3, this is very much by design.

Originally Posted by Irecinius View Post
When the sole problem is the LACK of WoWInterface and Curse to do a simple and very very simple thingy

Its called "RSS"

Everyone does nowadays.
WoWI and Curse have had RSS since long before WM existed. WM didn't use it, don't ***** at WoWI and Curse for that.

Originally Posted by Irecinius View Post
But why do the RIGHT Thing? lets do the one that fills our pocket with money from bystanders.
The thing that people like you keep missing (or more likely, intentionally ignoring) is that the sites are not trying to pad their profit margins. They are trying to break even. If you want to vilify people as money-grubbing *******s that are using Blizzard's IP to make money, why don't you go after the paid guide people? They make a *lot* of profit off their stuff, and they don't give anything away for free.
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04-16-09, 03:37 PM   #511
Bouvi
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Yeah it costs nothing to run this site, how dare they make money to pay for it.

Bandwidth is free you know. I bet you do not pay for internet access at all. If you do then you are just as bad as WoWI and Curse. Also if you pay why not share that internet with everyone close to you?

THEY HAVE TO PAY TO RUN THIS SITE!!!! It is not hard to understand. If they make no money, they cannot pay for the site. If they cannot pay for the site it goes down. If it goes down where will the addons go? Some other site will pop up but do you expect them to run it for free too?

Why don't you do it and pay it out of your own pocket for all the expenses, time and effort they have put into these sites?
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04-16-09, 03:40 PM   #512
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Originally Posted by Irecinius View Post
Lemme just do a recap of my addons

Cartographer3 (GPL)
BigWigs (CC-NonCommercial)
IceHud (none)
oRA2 (deprecated/none)


Now, acording to http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...02301679&sid=1
The arbirtrary body we are abbiding to:
addons must be free of charge.
code must be completely visible.
Yes, however, free and visible doesn't mean it has to follow an OSI compatible license.

Originally Posted by Irecinius View Post

Now
The ones without licence have dependency on ACE2/3
Thus inerhereting the LGPL v2.1 + MIT for AceOO-2.0
No it doesn't LGPL isn't viral like that.
Originally Posted by Irecinius View Post


Since the no charge is in effect and all code is visible it can not charge any fee for the add on, any addon that use is based or mere link to ACE3 is GPL in itself or the author is in VIOLATION of GPL.. and then the addon is the violation.
Ace3 isn't GPL'd at all. It's under a modified BSD that I reserve redistribution rights if not embedded in an addon or compilation.
Originally Posted by Irecinius View Post

But why are we hung on Author/developer distribution..

When the sole problem is the LACK of WoWInterface and Curse to do a simple and very very simple thingy

Its called "RSS"

Everyone does nowadays.

The Curse website has the right to distribute by ANY MEANS..

So a very simple

Developer > uploads to curse/WOWINterface > RSS Creates > WoWMatrix Parses RSS > User Download..
Not simple, you're forgetting the part where thousands of dollars are lost due to bandwidth charges.
Originally Posted by Irecinius View Post

Simple? yes, are we all happy? yes we are (WE USERS, WE DEVELOPERS)

Do anyone visit the website using this method? Absolutely, I've aways went to "Visit Curse/WowInterface" link on wowmatrix, because DEVELOPERS Make ****ty TOC's!!! Description sux.
You sir, are in the minority.
Originally Posted by Irecinius View Post

Its not wowmatrix faults for the descriptions, so I went there too to see screenshots and such..


But why do the RIGHT Thing? lets do the one that fills our pocket with money from bystanders.
Exactly why should you stop using a product that leeches bandwidth and hosts files without author consent.
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04-16-09, 04:49 PM   #513
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Originally Posted by Bouvi View Post
Yeah it costs nothing to run this site, how dare they make money to pay for it.

Bandwidth is free you know. I bet you do not pay for internet access at all. If you do then you are just as bad as WoWI and Curse. Also if you pay why not share that internet with everyone close to you?

THEY HAVE TO PAY TO RUN THIS SITE!!!! It is not hard to understand. If they make no money, they cannot pay for the site. If they cannot pay for the site it goes down. If it goes down where will the addons go? Some other site will pop up but do you expect them to run it for free too?

Why don't you do it and pay it out of your own pocket for all the expenses, time and effort they have put into these sites?
Agreed! These "I'm entitaled to everything for free" attitudes have become the prevaiiling wind in the last few years it seems. And the ones who have that attitude are usually the ones who scream first when this or that company runs at even a slight profit. I doubt that WI or her sister sites show any surplusses of money at all.
More questions... Does WM not work at all now? Were Curse and WowInterface the only two sites being leeched by WM? And if they weren't, why all the whining??? If they were, WM should never have allowed themselves to become so dependant on just two sites. If they were, then they are well within their rights to deal with a third party program leeching their bandwidth imo...
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04-16-09, 05:12 PM   #514
Bouvi
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Originally Posted by voodoodad2000 View Post
I doubt that WI or her sister sites show any surplusses of money at all.
I hope they are making some money. They have put in a ton of work over the years to provide this service for people. FOR FREE even. They deserve any amount of money they can make. I do not think they are but so what if they do?

I doubt all those people whining would do this much work for free. Now people want everything for nothing.
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04-16-09, 05:17 PM   #515
Thengus
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by Cairenn View Post
Cairenn, sorry but quoting yourself from a different forum, do not add much credibility to your point and the quote from tekkub is just saying that paying customers exist since last year...

I can believe that for the time being non paying users will not suffer any loss of functionality. But you do have paid subscriptions and that is exactly for the reasons I said: getting rid of the loss caused by adblockers and getting the money directly from your customers.

There is nothing wrong in this, btw, but only if you call it by the right name: business. Every business is here to make money, after all. But the need to make money can led (in the long-ish term) to make decisions you had never thought of making when you where not a business.

Thengus, Shadowsong
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04-16-09, 05:27 PM   #516
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Originally Posted by Bouvi View Post
I hope they are making some money. They have put in a ton of work over the years to provide this service for people. FOR FREE even. They deserve any amount of money they can make. I do not think they are but so what if they do?

I doubt all those people whining would do this much work for free. Now people want everything for nothing.
Don't get me wrong Bouvi. I hope and prey that they do indeed make profits. You are very correct to point out that they deserve everything they can get.
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04-16-09, 05:31 PM   #517
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Originally Posted by Cairenn View Post
What would have happened if we and Curse both had to close our doors on Tuesday? Not slow. Just plain closed.
Not being rude here, but the truth is this: I, and everybody else, would be disappointed. UICGaming would be ecstatic! There is always somebody out there willing to fill the void.

*Interface.com has always done a good job for the users to insure equality and easy distribution of add-ons. In my opinion, however, I think Dolby took a bit more than he was prepaired for when jumping on the WoW bandwagon. It's happened to *everybody.* Nobody has seen a userbase so large in any MMO in history. It's quite understandable.

If *Interface closed doors; there will be another site to take up the slack. The authors will flock to UICGaming, WorldofWar.net, or any other site that's hosting add-ons.

Please, don't ask the questions you're not prepared for the answers. Try not to take this the wrong way; but you're hardly the white knight of Add-on distribution. You're just another site. Yes, a well ran site, with a good archive of add-ons in a simple to find manor, but still just another site.
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04-16-09, 05:35 PM   #518
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Originally Posted by Thengus View Post
Cairenn, sorry but quoting yourself from a different forum, do not add much credibility to your point and the quote from tekkub is just saying that paying customers exist since last year...

I can believe that for the time being non paying users will not suffer any loss of functionality. But you do have paid subscriptions and that is exactly for the reasons I said: getting rid of the loss caused by adblockers and getting the money directly from your customers.

There is nothing wrong in this, btw, but only if you call it by the right name: business. Every business is here to make money, after all. But the need to make money can led (in the long-ish term) to make decisions you had never thought of making when you where not a business.

Thengus, Shadowsong
No one, again NO ONE, has to pay to use WOWInterface. Those that do, do so to support the site out of their own free will, nothing more. Heck when I have the spare money I'm going to become a premium member. Not because I have to, but because I want to provide my support.

Btw just in case you didn't get it the first time NO ONE HAS TO PAY TO USE WOW INTERFACE.

Please stop attacking Cairenn. Thank you
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04-16-09, 05:36 PM   #519
guice
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Originally Posted by Cairenn View Post
Cairenn is right. I've been involved with *Interface since almost the beginning when Dolby and Kudane started EQInterface. They are doing it for the users. They are good people.

hehe, I logged into my EQI profile for old times sake. My last file uploaded: banana_man.zip on 09-15-2002 06:55 PM ^_^
I totally loved my banana man within the EQ UI.
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04-16-09, 05:38 PM   #520
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Originally Posted by guice View Post
Not being rude here, but the truth is this: I, and everybody else, would be disappointed. UICGaming would be ecstatic! There is always somebody out there willing to fill the void.

*Interface.com has always done a good job for the users to insure equality and easy distribution of add-ons. In my opinion, however, I think Dolby took a bit more than he was prepaired for when jumping on the WoW bandwagon. It's happened to *everybody.* Nobody has seen a userbase so large in any MMO in history. It's quite understandable.

If *Interface closed doors; there will be another site to take up the slack. The authors will flock to UICGaming, WorldofWar.net, or any other site that's hosting add-ons.

Please, don't ask the questions you're not prepared for the answers. Try not to take this the wrong way; but you're hardly the white knight of Add-on distribution. You're just another site. Yes, a well ran site, with a good archive of add-ons in a simple to find manor, but still just another site.

Ok smart guy, what happens when WM drives those sites out of business because they can't pay their bills either? Assuming that those sites don't do what Curse and WOWInterface have done and simply block WM. I'm going to take a break from these forums, some of the attitudes here is making me hot under the collar.
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