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12-20-06, 12:41 PM   #1
Cladhaire
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PerfectRaid 2.0 Discussion (Sneak Peek)

I'm getting close to the point where I'm comfortable beta releasing PerfectRaid 2.0. I wanted to post here to give you a good idea of what to expect when the mod comes up for the first time, and get feedback on the overall system. I have not decided on everything yet, and I'm still working through things. My goals are the same as they ever were, but due to the changes in the UI, some of the simplicity has been lost. I'm going to do my best to give you guys exactly what you want, and exactly what I need.

PerfectRaid Options
When loading PerfectRaid for the first time, you will be confronted with a single column, showing each of the classes, in healing order (i.e. Warriors, Priest, Druid, Shaman, Paladin, Rogue, Mage, Warlock, Hunter). You will have the following options available to you in this "Simple Mode", the GUI for which can be accessed using the /praid command.

* Display your player frame at the top of the column
* Display your focus frame at the top of the column (below Player if active)
* Display your party frame at the top of the column (does not include you)

You will also have a radio that lets you select one of the following modes:

* Simple Mode - Class Display
* Simple Mode - Group Display (1 Column)
* Simple Mode - Group Display (2 Columns)
* Advanced Display Mode

Class Display is the default, but only allows one column (for now). I won't be coding 2-columns in manually, but we should be getting some help from Blizzard on that side of things.

Group Display will display the groups 1-8 in either one column, or two columns. If you choose the two column mode, then it will be split into odd and even (odd being on the left, even on the right).

Simple Mode
In Simple mode you have the following options:

* Set the backdrop color of the frames (not implemented yet)
* Choose to display the label of each "group" (i.e. class name, or group number)
* Add a vertical separator to separate each group, in pixels
* Show all frames as growth bars instead of depletion bars
* Display the health missing on each unit
* Disable or Enable Range Checking (it will choose your base healing spell as the test.
You will not be able to edit options while in combat, ever.

Advanced Mode
In Advanced Mode by default you will not have any frames created. You will be confronted with the "Frame Editor" which is very simple. It allows you to Add, Edit, and Delete different groups you'd like to display. You can choose from the following options (selecting as many as you'd like):

* Warrior, Priest, Druid, Shaman, Paladin, Mage, Warlock, Rogue, Hunter
* Group 1, Group 2, Group 3, Group 4, Group 5, Group 6, Group 7, Group 8

Anyone who fits into any of these groups will be displayed in your frame, sorted by Name (I can't change this). You also have an option to enable "strict" filtering, which means that in order for someone to be displayed, they must match ALL conditions, for example you could show all Priests in Group 1. Keep in mind that you can't combine classes AND use strict filtering, since there is only one class per user.

You can edit, and delete these frames at any point in time. They will be saved wherever you drag them to and restored on the next game load, along with your options. These frames will only be displayed when you are in a raid (naturally).

What about Buff Display

Right now I am planning on a very customizable system with really sane defaults. You will be able to enter the "buff" editor. In the buff editor you are able to specify the following criteria:

* Name of the buff or debuff
* Group name (Alternate name) of the buff debuff

This will be the localized name of the buff, i.e. it will need to be properly localized for non enUS clients, but you are able to change these easily. The group alternate name is there so you can group Mark of the Wild and Gift of the Wild together as a single buff.

You can then specify the following display options:

* A text string to be displayed (With color codes intially, a color selection box later) or
* An icon to be displayed.

You can also specify the following conditions for the buff:

* Any of the classes
* Any of the groups
* Subclasses, "Healers", "Mana Users", "Melee", etc.
* Only show buff when its missing

Buff display works in the following manner:

* Buffs are tracked and cached for each unit.
* When they have changed, we scan each of the buffs you would like to look for.
* If that buff is found (or missing, depending on options) then we check each of the condition functions to see if one of them applies to the unit.
* If one of the conditions returns true, then we display the text string or the icon, as specified. If multiple instances of the buff/debuff exists, then the string is repeated.

This allows Druids to watch for Thorns on Warriors only, or Paladins to watch for Blessing of Wisdom on each of their mana users. This system also gives you the flexibility to watch for debuffs on a custom basis, for example:

* When fighting Maexxna in Naxx, every 40 seconds or so, she will cast Web Wrap on a number of players in the raid. You can specify this debuff, and give it a specific text string, i.e. "Webbed" so you know to watch those people and take care of their cocoons. You no longer need special mods to watch very custom things, because you can do it all right within PerfectRaid.

Frame Display
Right now the frames will look like the following, when left-aligned (no idea what i'm doing with right-alignment):

Code:
[MARKER] Unit Name [=======XX] [ICON][ICON][ICON][TEXT]
* [MARKER]: This will (eventually) display the raid target icon, if one exists. It may also be expanded in the future to show when a unit has aggro (a red sword perhaps), who is master looter, who is raid leader, etc. It won't become too extensive, but I'll think about it.
* Unit Name: This will be colored by class color for each unit
* XX: The status text goes here (DEAD, GHOST, OFFLINE, AFK?). This will also display the health deficit, if any.
* [ICON]: These are any of the buffs you have specified to show icons. These will be displayed BEFORE the status text.
* [TEXT]: This is what you're used to, with buff notifications.

Debuff Notifications

Right now, I'm toying with what to do for debuff notifications (i.e. Magic, Poison, Disease, etc.). What I'm thinking about currently is a reasonably transparent colored texture over the status bar, pulsing with the debuff color, for example, purple for a curse. This would make it VERY clear who needed to be decursed. I have not decided if I want these notifications in the text status section, but if I do, they'll be there.
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Last edited by Cladhaire : 12-20-06 at 01:09 PM.
 
12-20-06, 12:43 PM   #2
Cladhaire
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Please limit this thread to discussing the upcoming PerfectRaid 2.0 release. Please read my entire post before asking questions, and work to see if someone has already asked your question. I'll compile some of the best feedback and post it somewhere where I can keep track of it. Please keep discussion civil. I know many people want tons of features out of PerfectRaid and some want it to not change at all.

The fact is, PerfectRaid has to change some, there isn't an option. I'm doing my best to make it work as cleanly as possible, and do what it does best.. displaying just the information each person cares about.
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12-20-06, 01:05 PM   #3
katana
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Hi. Not much to say, since your features list is actually more than I could have dreamt of

But simple question: do you plan to implement range checking or do you think it's better to use a 3rd party mod if we need that (like Healing Range Alpha) ?

Oh, and the tricky one : what's the current status of developement ? I don't want to be annoying but... well you know
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12-20-06, 01:08 PM   #4
Cladhaire
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Originally Posted by katana
Hi. Not much to say, since your features list is actually more than I could have dreamt of

But simple question: do you plan to implement range checking or do you think it's better to use a 3rd party mod if we need that (like Healing Range Alpha) ?

Oh, and the tricky one : what's the current status of developement ? I don't want to be annoying but... well you know
Oh yeah.. Range checking is fully implemented.. its the first thing I did, since I test in AB/AV =).

Development is going well, but its tough right now.. everything has to fit together to have it in a place where I'll be happy releasing it. I'm working on it =)
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12-20-06, 01:13 PM   #5
Swiss
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Sounds like you're making good progress while trying to keep the original concept intact.

Debuffs: I've enjoyed the style of notification that x-perl frames use for debuffs, which is a color changing frame border unique to the debuff type (green = poison, violet = curse, etc.). I would be supportive of the frames either changing color entirely or just the borders, depending on what works out best. When there are mutiple debuffs of different types, this can be a problem, which may be a reason to add icons in the status section.
 
12-20-06, 01:29 PM   #6
Scre3m
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Cladhaire, this is *beyond* perfect.

Do you plan to provide the same functionality for party unitbars (when not in a raid)?
 
12-20-06, 01:31 PM   #7
Cladhaire
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Yes, thats one of the main options
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12-20-06, 02:20 PM   #8
citrate
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This sounds almost perfect to me. I personally like the single-column view with the ability to macro resorting between group and class (usually run with class, but sometimes it's handy to switch to figure out quickly who is in each group).

The buff/debuff changes seem great. I think that it gives a lot more customization.

Looking forward to the beta and thanks for the update! I suspect that there will be more constructive feedback once people see the interface and can get a feel for how it works. Perhaps, if you are at that point, you could post a screenshot or mark-up of what this will look like?


Thanks!
 
12-20-06, 02:20 PM   #9
garnerh42
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Originally Posted by Cladhaire

Frame Display
Right now the frames will look like the following, when left-aligned (no idea what i'm doing with right-alignment):

Code:
[MARKER] Unit Name [=======XX] [ICON][ICON][ICON][TEXT]
I see you've structured left-aligned so that the dynamic part grows towards the right after a bunch of fixed spaced areas. The same should be applied to right aligned in my opinion.

The way I believe it would match the way PerfectRaid did it before is:

Code:
[TEXT][ICON][ICON][ICON][MARKER][=======XX]Unit Name
I liked that I could truncate the name so the names all lined up perfectly and all the bars lined up perfectly.

For some reason I've always had raid bars on the right, but maybe I'll consider playing with them on the left now and see how I like it. Anyway, looking forward to new version!
 
12-20-06, 02:28 PM   #10
Cladhaire
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Originally Posted by citrate
This sounds almost perfect to me. I personally like the single-column view with the ability to macro resorting between group and class (usually run with class, but sometimes it's handy to switch to figure out quickly who is in each group).
This won't be easy, I just need everyone to know that =)

The buff/debuff changes seem great. I think that it gives a lot more customization.

Looking forward to the beta and thanks for the update! I suspect that there will be more constructive feedback once people see the interface and can get a feel for how it works. Perhaps, if you are at that point, you could post a screenshot or mark-up of what this will look like?
Thanks!
I won't be posting screenshots until the addon has been released to my beta testers, but then I'm sure we'll start seeing things.
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12-20-06, 03:04 PM   #11
Tierdar
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Good afternoon Cladhaire,

I would assume it safe to say that we will still see the letters that most healers have become used to seeing such as the renew, rejuv etc. next to the unit as it is placed. Two questions, one simple and one a bit more involving. For those renews etc. with the new stacking HoT system is there going to be a way to display how many a unit has on them such as it having a green 'R' with say a multiplier next to it showing how many are placed? Example "Unit" ======= Rx4.

Also I had sent you a PM many months ago which you replied understandably that you wouldnt add any new features until the next release. In that PM I had asked you about adding support or installing a incoming heals feature on the unit bars. Since the patch has hit just about every viable addon that I had used to monitor incoming heals on single or mulitple targets has been abandoned. Would you consider adding something like this to Perfect Raid? Even if it were to be something simplistic to show the unit frame in a different color or flash a warning if the heal that is incoming cast by the player is going to be an overheal.
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12-20-06, 03:31 PM   #12
krinla
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Originally Posted by Cladhaire
Debuff Notifications

Right now, I'm toying with what to do for debuff notifications (i.e. Magic, Poison, Disease, etc.). What I'm thinking about currently is a reasonably transparent colored texture over the status bar, pulsing with the debuff color, for example, purple for a curse. This would make it VERY clear who needed to be decursed. I have not decided if I want these notifications in the text status section, but if I do, they'll be there.
Thanks for all your hard work! I would like to either see the name of the debuff in text or be able to ignore debuffs that might be beneficial. I'm sure you would either ignore Weakened Soul or add the text but not the color to the health bar. I can't think of the beneficial debuffs right now but you know what I mean, right....
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12-20-06, 03:41 PM   #13
techdavidson
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It would be nice if Debuffs ran on the same system Buffs did.

IE - We could choose wether to show an icon or recolor on presence/absence of specific named DEbuffs, this would help muchly for certain fights, and Pallies/Priests might care (Weakened soul/Forbearance)

I also definitely wanted to thank you for making virtual frames available. I'm hoping with those you will allow us to specify custom groups (at least through a plugin Mod) so we can, as your new sig on the WoW forums specifies:

Show Decurse Assignments
Show Healing Assignments

If you allow an external mod to set up these custom frames out of combat, and specify custom buffs/debuffs to watch for, it would vastly simplify raid leader's jobs, as they could dump the info of who you are watching and what you are watching for directly to the plugin mod to set up a special frame for you for the fight.
 
12-20-06, 03:50 PM   #14
Scre3m
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"Disable or Enable Range Checking (it will choose your base healing spell as the test."

This may be a n00b question, but I'll ask it anyways. When buffing, I like to know when everyone in a group is in range so I don't miss anyone. Are the ranges of base heals and say buffs (ex. Prayer of Fortitude) the same? And, will the range be adjusted to take into account any range-extending talents?
 
12-20-06, 04:30 PM   #15
Keshik
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Looking forward to re-release

I have tried a bunch of other raid options since 2.0 and been sorely disappointed. Can't wait for the new PerfectRaid.
 
12-20-06, 04:58 PM   #16
Cladhaire
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Originally Posted by Scre3m
"Disable or Enable Range Checking (it will choose your base healing spell as the test."

This may be a n00b question, but I'll ask it anyways. When buffing, I like to know when everyone in a group is in range so I don't miss anyone. Are the ranges of base heals and say buffs (ex. Prayer of Fortitude) the same? And, will the range be adjusted to take into account any range-extending talents?
It will always use your base heal, which should be 40 yards plus any from talents/bonuses. There are no plans to adjust that.
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"There's only one thing that I know how to do well and I've often been told that you only can do what you know how to do well, and that's be you-- be what you're like-- be like yourself. And so I'm having a wonderful time, but I'd rather be whistling in the dark..."
 
12-20-06, 06:34 PM   #17
Disfunkton
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I loved the original PRaid just the way it was. Good luck on getting 2.0 out I await using it in MC and BWL.
 
12-20-06, 06:52 PM   #18
Tassels
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Greetings Cladhaire . First let me thank you for an awesome mod! I love perfectraid and all it did for me as a healer.

With the recent 2.0 changes, I discovered Healbot (Continued) and found it as a good alternative to PerfectRaid while we anxiously awaited a release. One of the amazing features I found in Healbot is it will show you when other healers are casting heals on a player. It does this by adding a bar onto the player's current health with a more transparent alpha. The amount is approximated by the type of heal it is. It will also display the players health numerically as if he has already been healed by other players heals.

This is tremendous for avoiding overhealing in a raid. Is there any way to implement something similiar to PerfectRaid? I really want to use PerfectRaid again but this single feature in Healbot is confining me.

Thanks,
Tassels of Draenor
 
12-20-06, 07:03 PM   #19
Lichbane
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I have to say this is quite exciting.

One request: Could you have the option to put the group number displayed next to the name again? This'll be handy of you have the raid organised by class, but need to know what group someone is in.
 
12-21-06, 01:57 AM   #20
Decius
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This list sounds really great! I really loved Praid 1.0 and raiding without it is a chore, especially since I didn't find a good solution showing me who is buffed and who isn't of my assigned group (currently I let Smartbuff nagging me). Praid was perfect for this.


Of course now the wishes start

Two things that I would love to see:
- The option to specify how many letters of a name are shown. The names were always the thing taking up a lot of space in Praid 1.0, even with the shortened option. Since I usually raid with the same people I don't really need to see more than 4-5 letters of the name (and thanks to Grid I'm used to it anyway).
- The option to hide the frame completely on a scriptcommand. I usually specify one macro to show Praid class-sorted and one group-sorted. But what I missed in Praid 1.0 (or maybe I never found it) was the option to show/hide Praid completely on command.
 

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