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04-16-09, 08:24 AM   #481
Thengus
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Angry

Originally Posted by Cairenn View Post
I have a very simple question for you.

What would have happened if we and Curse both had to close our doors on Tuesday? Not slow. Just plain closed.
That would only have meant that bot CUrse and WOWI are run by a bunch of 10 years old that have no idea at all about planning. That is apparently is not the case. And this answer the question because if we stick to reality, there is no way that two web sites like these could close like this.

Still what you did and when you did it is still pretty infantile: it was not enough to stop WOWMatrix to steal your b/w, you had to show them who's in control, who's the strongest… /flex

And so, for your worse possible choice of timing your customers (yes, customers: you make money by providing a service even if the money do not come directly from the customers) that load your ads to pay your bills, get the shaft: still slow or non existent possibility of download (yesterday your site WAS down) and between Curse and WoWI You still do not have one client that is at the same level of WOWmatrix (well, WOWI do not have a client at all, yet)

A correct timing would have been after patch day, say 1-2 weeks after, for example… In taht way the problem to your user would have been minimal, and the users of WOW matrix would have made some nosie but would have migrated to either you or curse…

An even better moment would have been when you and or curse (and why don't the two of you get together in this, since you are so much more mature than the folks at wowmatrix?) are able to offer a functional and non-crashing client. That would have show everybody that you DO care about the people that frequent your websites…

But, alas, you do not, at least not enough to avoid petty squabbles among yourselves…

Thengus, Shadowsong
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04-16-09, 08:28 AM   #482
Cairenn
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I've answered this time and again:

http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...&postcount=298
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04-16-09, 08:28 AM   #483
LittleWhiteDove
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Originally Posted by Cairenn View Post
In all honesty, I'd be crying, because of how much I love our sites and our community (yes, I AM a girl and yes I really do love our sites that much, that I'd be in tears over it, and no, I'm not at all ashamed to admit that), and I'd be furious at those who had forced us to close because we couldn't pay our bills that they cost us.

To Thrillseeker - Cairenn and Dolby have been with the interface sites since the very beginning. WoWInterface is just another in the long line of help they have set up for game players such as yourself. They provide a simple place for addon authors to put the things you the player want in order to make your games more fun or easier to play. When the sites first started they were very small and the two or three people working on them did so after there own full day at a paying job was done. Over time the sites grew so popular that they required full time attention and more and more computer space/bandwidth/whatever. Eventually they required paid staff to maintain them. I believe that the paid staff total two and the rest are still volunteers. They put in long days and many sleepless nights to to provide a free service to help the community be a good place for all us gamers. These sites, the computers they require, the internet access needed to provide all of this free for you, the end user, do not come free for the site. Somehow they have to raise funds to pay for that. When their bills increase substantially because of an outside influence they have to do something to slow down or stop the drain on their resources. That is what they did when they blocked Wowmatirx.

You asked what Cairenn would do if the site closed and she told you she would cry and I know that is true. She would also, I am sure, go to one of the half dozen much higher paying jobs she has been offered over the past couple of years. Jobs that she has turned down to stay with the interface sites. Jobs that would mean more stability in her life. Jobs that would allow her to work 8 hour days instead of 18. Jobs that ...........

Oh hell - what is the point of trying to explain any further. If you don't understand by now you never will. (Yes I do know Cairenn personally)


To the rest of those that are upset because Wowmatrix can not access some of the interface addon sites I add the following comments.

As to the updating of addons - I use about 25/30 different addons. I check for updates every couple of weeks not every day as Wowmatrix asks you to do. Why would Wowmatirx as you check all of your addons daily? (That is a rhetorical question and you do not need to answer it because There just isn't any need.) WoWInterface sends me a notice when any of my favorites are updated. The other sites I use don't but I haven't seen any threads like this attacking them because they aren't providing special free service to their site users. On Tuesday the Patch kept the WoW servers down until late in the day. When they came on line I logged in with every single one of my addons was still out of date - I purposely did not download any updates. The game worked fine. One addon error.

What is/was all this fuss about. The possibility that a few addons would not work. Most addon authors had not even had an opportunity to do the updates to their mods until long after this topic had been beaten to death and people like the site admins here had been accused of all types of
evil motives and their plan to destroy the given right of some players to demand everything for free and give nothing in return.

Enough is enough in my mind. If the site admins (because they are too polite and care to much) won't tell you where you should stick all this crap then perhaps it is time that some of the rest of us did. (and that comment, coming from this old lady, is something I never thought I would write for all the world to see).

If you aren't happy with what is/was done on this site then go elsewhere. In my opinion you are not needed here.
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04-16-09, 08:32 AM   #484
Thengus
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Originally Posted by Gamoin View Post
Edit: And as we concluded, you are not a customer, you're an user.

user
n 1: a person who makes use of a thing; someone who uses or
employs something

customer
n : someone who pays for goods or services [syn: client]
Gaimon, you can play with semantic as much as you want, but if nobody (I'm referring to us "users") would visit this website WOWI would not see a dime, hence even if I'm not the one paying (directly) WOWI get some money every time I visite a page with some ads on.

Finally as both curse and WOWI has the final goal to implement paid subscriptions, they already consider us customers, the only difference is that they also want to cut out loss from adblockers and get the money directly from us…

Thengus, Shadowsong
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04-16-09, 08:32 AM   #485
Bouvi
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Originally Posted by LittleWhiteDove View Post
If you aren't happy with what is/was done on this site then go elsewhere. In my opinion you are not needed here.
Best quote in this whole topic.
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04-16-09, 08:45 AM   #486
voodoodad
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Originally Posted by LittleWhiteDove View Post
To Thrillseeker - Enough is enough in my mind. If the site admins (because they are too polite and care to much) won't tell you where you should stick all this crap then perhaps it is time that some of the rest of us did. (and that comment, coming from this old lady, is something I never thought I would write for all the world to see).

If you aren't happy with what is/was done on this site then go elsewhere. In my opinion you are not needed here.
And the LittleWhiteDove turns out to be a Raging Valkyrie! Horaa! to you for actually having the metaphorical balls to say what so many of the rest of us have been thinking for two days!
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04-16-09, 08:53 AM   #487
Jesamyn
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Originally Posted by Thengus View Post
Gaimon, you can play with semantic as much as you want, but if nobody (I'm referring to us "users") would visit this website WOWI would not see a dime, hence even if I'm not the one paying (directly) WOWI get some money every time I visite a page with some ads on.

However, there are obviously plenty of people in this thread who aren't upset with this and will continue to visit the site. Who ARE visiting this site. If a user didn't visit before because they were using WM and now won't visit out of objection, then to be honest, it's still a win for WoWI and Curse. Sure, the user isn't seeing the ads...but they're also no longer using the bandwidth either. And those of us who use the site and like it could get on with minimal errors and downtime on patch day.
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Last edited by Jesamyn : 04-16-09 at 09:25 AM. Reason: typo
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04-16-09, 08:53 AM   #488
Zmorfius
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I never used wowmatrix, i use another more low profile updater that is unfortunately also affected by this ban.

What confuses me is that in your post you admit that both curse and wowinterface have trouble keeping up with the demand for updates.

I understand people deep linking content "you" pay to host are doing something wrong, but then i see you also dont like it when they maintain a mirror database.....

Now i understand some addon authors may dislike other websites hosting there addons and you certainly do your best to pretend this clamp down is in defence of the poor developers but i think the reality is much different.

Its alot like the music industrie billing artist for uploading new songs to there "own personal websites".

Whats next, will you make addon authors sign a agreement there addons will only be hosted at your site and they are not allowed to upload elsewhere or announce they dont mind people hosting without asking?


I think its time for a peer-to-peer addon client, that way u cant hide behind bandwith bull****.....

But lets face it, its all about the bacon aint it?
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04-16-09, 08:56 AM   #489
Thrillseeker
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Originally Posted by voodoodad2000 View Post
And the LittleWhiteDove turns out to be a Raging Valkyrie! Horaa! to you for actually having the metaphorical balls to say what so many of the rest of us have been thinking for two days!
It's nice how you rearanged LWD's text. She didn't address me personal with that ass-sticking stuff. You changed the "quote". How naughty...
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04-16-09, 08:56 AM   #490
Slakah
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Finally as both curse and WOWI has the final goal to implement paid subscriptions, they already consider us customers, the only difference is that they also want to cut out loss from adblockers and get the money directly from us…
Search through the thread, I'm not going to find it for you but Cairenn, Seerah and possibly Dolby have pointed out they are NOT going to require subscription to use the new updater which Shirik is working on. Curse to my knowledge will require a subscription for the "updater all in one button press feature.

As for this customer/user argument, I personally find it irellevent as quite alot of the WoWMatrix users (not all) are just that, WoWMatrix users and not WoWInterface users, as they pretty much bypassed the service offered by WoWInterface, and want to completely trash their servers while giving nothing in return. As Tekkub has already posted Boycotting WoWInterface/Curse will harm them less than using WoWMatrix.
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04-16-09, 08:57 AM   #491
Zyonin
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Originally Posted by LittleWhiteDove View Post
To Thrillseeker
Enough is enough in my mind. If the site admins (because they are too polite and care to much) won't tell you where you should stick all this crap then perhaps it is time that some of the rest of us did. (and that comment, coming from this old lady, is something I never thought I would write for all the world to see).

If you aren't happy with what is/was done on this site then go elsewhere. In my opinion you are not needed here.
/AMEN

Do I really need to say more? I am trying to be real nice, however the "Lumberjack tongue" (it's related to "Sailor" and "Longshoremen") keeps wanting to be used to express what I want to say.
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04-16-09, 08:57 AM   #492
Tristanian
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Originally Posted by Thengus View Post
Gaimon, you can play with semantic as much as you want, but if nobody (I'm referring to us "users") would visit this website WOWI would not see a dime, hence even if I'm not the one paying (directly) WOWI get some money every time I visite a page with some ads on.
You are the one who is actually not getting it, but if you really want to argue semantics, then so be it. The money actually comes from the companies whose ads are being hosted by WoWI. _YOU_ as a user are not financially burdened in any way, while visiting the site or downloading an addon. More specifically, if you are using an ad blocker (since a lot of people claim that they do), then your entire argument becomes moot.

Finally as both curse and WOWI has the final goal to implement paid subscriptions, they already consider us customers, the only difference is that they also want to cut out loss from adblockers and get the money directly from us…

Thengus, Shadowsong
Please provide a quote from an official source, stating that access to addons or the website itself will be restricted to "future subscribers". I know for a fact that Curse intends to implement such a program for certain features in their updater, but not the addons themselves, while I have personally never heard anything on the matter from WoWI (at least nothing in the past few months).
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04-16-09, 12:46 PM   #493
thumpabash
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Guys, please keep up the good work.

The sense of entitlement that some of these people have simply does not allow them to see reason but instead they will keep posting QQ stories about how you took their 1-button solution away you evil evil people

My suggestion is to just move on and keep doing the cool stuff you guys are doing with WOWI (though I suspect you are no matter what your detractors say)
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04-16-09, 12:54 PM   #494
Scalebane
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Good job on stopping those leeches =D

Anyways if you have to get extreme in blocking WM i won't mind at all having to type in them code thingers just to download the mods i use.

while updaters are nice i can easily live without them. =D
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04-16-09, 01:07 PM   #495
Thengus
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Originally Posted by Jesamyn View Post
However, there are obviously plenty of people in this thread who aren't upset with this and will continue to visit the site. Who ARE visiting this site. If a user didn't visit before because they were using WM and now won't visit out of objection, then to be honest, it's still a win for WoWI and Curse. Sure, the user isn't seeing the ads...but they're also no longer using the bandwidth either. And those of us who use the site and like it could get on with minimal errors and downtime on patch day.
I always had and I will continue to visit this site, along with curse, and a few other, as I do not care about who get paid when I load a page from a web site, but the the reason I'm pissed off about this decision IS NOT THE DECISION is the way and the moment that have been chosen to implement it.

I never used WOWMatrix on my machine ever

And even using the Curse updater I still have to come here or on few other sites to find my add ons and I'll keep doing it, because I need a service that is provided (partially) by WOWI.

But WOWi, along with Curse did not showed much maturity in how the implemented this completely rightfully theirs decision: they collectively decided to think about their pockets rather then the community. So the community paid for it

Cairenn keep repeating that they did not have a choice, well I'm sure I will hear the same thing from Curse…

But again i repeat… if WOWI and Curse is managed by people that is so mature and superior (as compared to the infantile b/w thieves that are the owners of WOWMatrix), why not agreeing for a less showy solution?

I had suggested an implementation 2 weeks later than patch day, but if it was such a problem delaying, why not doing a month or two earlier, then?

I think there where other possibilities and this choice of the time has been made on purpose. That is why i'm not happy. Declaring a war is always wrong, even if the war is just.
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04-16-09, 01:11 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by Lykofos View Post
I am trying to be real nice, however the "Lumberjack tongue" (it's related to "Sailor" and "Longshoremen") keeps wanting to be used to express what I want to say.
I've never heard that profession related to it... I usually say that I swear like an oil field hand because I used to work for them (I was in the office, not the field)... but I'd much rather be associated with lumberjacks, they're ****ing sexy.
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04-16-09, 01:19 PM   #497
Thengus
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Originally Posted by Tristanian View Post
You are the one who is actually not getting it, but if you really want to argue semantics, then so be it. The money actually comes from the companies whose ads are being hosted by WoWI. _YOU_ as a user are not financially burdened in any way, while visiting the site or downloading an addon. More specifically, if you are using an ad blocker (since a lot of people claim that they do), then your entire argument becomes moot.

Please provide a quote from an official source, stating that access to addons or the website itself will be restricted to "future subscribers". I know for a fact that Curse intends to implement such a program for certain features in their updater, but not the addons themselves, while I have personally never heard anything on the matter from WoWI (at least nothing in the past few months).
ah, but using an ad blocker is the same as using wowmatrix… i do not load the adds… allow me to quote:

Originally Posted by Cairenn
WowMatrix leeches from the legitimate hosting sites without permission, let alone compensation. [...]. WowInterface and Curse use a lot of bandwidth every month which costs a lot of money. The way we pay our bills is through site ads, which are directly dependent on users viewing them, and premium memberships. WowMatrix bypasses our download pages, and, as a result, people are not viewing the ads. Of course, this means the ads aren't generating any revenue to pay for the bandwidth. [...]
(emphasis added)

this should make clarity on both you points and if you haven't read it, this quote comes from the first post of this thread…
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04-16-09, 01:26 PM   #498
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Originally Posted by Thrillseeker View Post
It's nice how you rearanged LWD's text. She didn't address me personal with that ass-sticking stuff. You changed the "quote". How naughty...
It wasn't my intention to target you, Thrillseeker. I did a bad edit on the quote. Sorry.
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04-16-09, 01:27 PM   #499
Thengus
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Originally Posted by Slakah View Post
Search through the thread, I'm not going to find it for you but Cairenn, Seerah and possibly Dolby have pointed out they are NOT going to require subscription to use the new updater which Shirik is working on. Curse to my knowledge will require a subscription for the "updater all in one button press feature.
I just replied to Tristanian about the same line, I would suggest to read the very first post from Cairenn again:

The way we pay our bills is through site ads, which are directly dependent on users viewing them, and premium memberships
If they are not here now, they will be here in the future, trust me…

They will maintain free accessibility to the site, of course, but they'll start to move every little feature they can think of to the premium memberships…

but I might be wrong…

Thengus, Shadowsong
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04-16-09, 01:41 PM   #500
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Originally Posted by Thengus View Post
If they are not here now, they will be here in the future, trust me…

They will maintain free accessibility to the site, of course, but they'll start to move every little feature they can think of to the premium memberships…

but I might be wrong…
They are here already, see those people with yellow names and "site supporter" badges? It's been around for some time now (what, a year?). You get ad-free browsing and some forum perks. There are no plans that we're aware of to move any existing freebies to the premiums, nor are there plans for the updater to be premium when it's done. Curse will have a paid-premium updater, with either a reduced-funtionality or ad-supported free version.
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WoWInterface » Site Forums » News » WoWInterface and Curse working together to help protect authors and other site-users

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