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09-21-08, 12:32 PM   #1
MidgetMage55
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The 'geared' rant

So today im on my warlock, Just got it to 70 a few days ago and im looking to hit the BRD boss for at chance at some of the drops. I get invited to a group and get tossed because im not 'geared'. Im wearing all blues and one or 2 purples so its not like im in terrible gear. All i can gather is this knucklehead expected only people that had arena/raid gear for a simple 73 elite.

Ive done this fight several times on this toon already and it does NOT need the toons to be 'geared'. I would understand it if were a raid or a rather challenging heroic or even if i were trying to join a very competitive arena team. This mentality is getting worse as well. Its getting to the point where if you dont raid or pvp you will be tossed even from simple instance groups for lack of being 'geared'. It isnt there yet, but its heading that way.

Before some folks get all bent out of shape and accuse me of whining because i 'cant get good gear' keep in mind i fully recognize and accept that there are plenty of times where gear makes a huge difference. Raids, arena teams, certain heroics and so on. My gripe is the increasing frequency where people are insisting on it when its not only unnecessary but laughable.

The only thing that takes the fun out of a great game is people i guess lol.

/end rant
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09-21-08, 02:25 PM   #2
Eas
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/cheer

I completly agree with this. I've had group members insist I throw my mage friend out because her gear is not to 'par'. She's in almost all PvP gear with a few blues and a epic or 2 from kara. Yet they still insist on kicking her. But I don't and guess what, the idiot leaves and we get another, or we complete the dungeon.
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09-21-08, 04:17 PM   #3
Shirik
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If he kicked you out, you were probably better off anyway. I wouldn't waste my time with someone as rude as that.

That's all I have to say on that matter
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09-21-08, 09:45 PM   #4
MidgetMage55
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Update: Well shortly after i posted my rant the chucklehead in question started posting for a lock again without the 'geared' requirement. I was also sent a tell which i politely laughed at. The irony is delicious.

And i agree it was better off that way. Just the mentality growing to the scale it is at (and it seems like no end in sight) is more what im annoyed at.

Indirect revenge is just as tasty as the real thing.
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09-22-08, 11:55 AM   #5
torokokill
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Funny thing is that I've seen "undergeared" players do better than better geared players just because the better geared ones are lazy and/or stupid.
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09-22-08, 01:53 PM   #6
GrissomXIX
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That's because the 'undergeared' players feel they have something to prove and want to keep up with the rest of the run/raid whereas an unfortunate majority of 'geared' players already think they're the sh*t and can slack off because they're the most important person in the group. I've seen more lazy wipes and stupid mistakes from arrogant, ignorant 'geared' players than I have from undergeared ones...only because the 'overgeared' ones think they know everything because they have purples.
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09-22-08, 03:08 PM   #7
Gandoch
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Originally Posted by MidgetMage55 View Post
Im wearing all blues and one or 2 purples so its not like im in terrible gear.
Actually, it's exactly like you're in terrible gear. Mostly because you are.

No, you don't need 4pc T6 and Sunwell offset pieces to do the boss, you don't even need S1 PvP gear, but you do have terrible gear, and people generally assume that people with terrible gear only have terrible gear because they don't put the time or effort into the character required to get even moderately decent gear and as such, don't have any idea what they're doing.

Yes, it's a stereotype. Yes, you got a raw deal. But you can't contribute the same way as any other person with moderately decent gear when you're wearing rags. Nobody is obliged to take someone with them to do anything in this game.
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09-22-08, 03:48 PM   #8
Arabeth
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Originally Posted by Gandoch View Post
... people generally assume that people with terrible gear only have terrible gear because they don't put the time or effort into the character required to get even moderately decent gear and as such, don't have any idea what they're doing.
You are making WoW sound too much like real life there IMHO. The assumption is more that people who are not prepared to give up real life to play this game 24/7 are idiots and not worthy of playing with. There have been other posts on different threads here recently about the puerilty of some players and this is another symptom of that kind of juvenile attitude. "Seen with a noob" - guilty by association!! Fair enough, there are times where gear will matter but everyone has to start somewhere. I am speaking as someone who has never raided because I really don't care about it. You should see my gear!!

Originally Posted by Gandoch View Post
Nobody is obliged to take someone with them to do anything in this game.
If that were true, why do we have LFG??
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09-22-08, 04:33 PM   #9
Rigorous
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any moron with no skills whatsoever can attend enough raids or be in enough PUGs to get themselves "well-geared". gear does not overcome stupidity (which i see far too often in WoW) and gear does not equal skill (which people assume to be true too often in WoW).

i'd take a skilled but "undergeared" person over a "geared" but unskilled person any day. all the +hit gear in the world isn't going to help someone make the right judgement call when the situation requires it.
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09-22-08, 04:37 PM   #10
erica647
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Originally Posted by Rigorous View Post
any moron with no skills whatsoever can attend enough raids or be in enough PUGs to get themselves "well-geared". gear does not overcome stupidity (which i see far too often in WoW) and gear does not equal skill (which people assume to be true too often in WoW).

i'd take a skilled but "undergeared" person over a "geared" but unskilled person any day. all the +hit gear in the world isn't going to help someone make the right judgement call when the situation requires it.
I support the preceding message! This is something I've been saying all along but I seem to get scoffed at more often than not. :P
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09-22-08, 04:40 PM   #11
Elloria
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Originally Posted by Gandoch View Post
Actually, it's exactly like you're in terrible gear. Mostly because you are.

No, you don't need 4pc T6 and Sunwell offset pieces to do the boss, you don't even need S1 PvP gear, but you do have terrible gear, and people generally assume that people with terrible gear only have terrible gear because they don't put the time or effort into the character required to get even moderately decent gear and as such, don't have any idea what they're doing.

Yes, it's a stereotype. Yes, you got a raw deal. But you can't contribute the same way as any other person with moderately decent gear when you're wearing rags. Nobody is obliged to take someone with them to do anything in this game.

huh? wait what? having all blues and some purples is having terrible gear? Whats next for wotlk? "You dont' have all epics and legendaries your gear is TERRIBAD!!!!"

I say trends like this should just stop. Its childish and ignorant.

Terrible gear = greens (in most cases) Unless the person is wearing blues that don't match their class.

as to the op of the thread. This is just like my nerd rage rant. Its yet again a problem with the wow community that we will never be able to get past. But i will say one thing though. After i wrote my nerd rage post i actually decided to stick with my own group of people and to never pug anything EVER again. And its been great. The friends of my guild have recently invited a few more of their close friends......and they are normal!1 i know right? can't believe it my self either. You should seriously just transfer to area 52 (and be horde if you arent) :P
/end rant
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09-22-08, 04:58 PM   #12
littlebuddha79
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Originally Posted by Gandoch View Post
Actually, it's exactly like you're in terrible gear. Mostly because you are.

No, you don't need 4pc T6 and Sunwell offset pieces to do the boss, you don't even need S1 PvP gear, but you do have terrible gear, and people generally assume that people with terrible gear only have terrible gear because they don't put the time or effort into the character required to get even moderately decent gear and as such, don't have any idea what they're doing.

Yes, it's a stereotype. Yes, you got a raw deal. But you can't contribute the same way as any other person with moderately decent gear when you're wearing rags. Nobody is obliged to take someone with them to do anything in this game.
This is probably one of the most ignorant statements I've read on the forums in quite some time. Unless you're being completely sarcastic, you have a seriously screwed up view on WoW. You do NOT need full epics to kill a lvl 73 elite, and you do not need full epics to have you gear considered "not terrible". I'm not big on raiding (mostly due to the proliferation of attitudes like this), but I have been in Kara once and cleared the 1st boss. At the time I was a MM/SV Hunter with most of my points in MM and SV to get improved traps. Me and another hunter in the raid were passing a mob back and forth in freezing traps to keep it out of the fight throughout all the pulls up to the boss, so I wasn't DPSing the entire time, and I still got TOP DPS in a raid full of players with full epics. All I had was 4 pieces of the Stalker Set(Blue) a couple other random blues from Auchidon, the PVP Crossbow and the lvl 62 engineering goggles(the only 2 purples I had). I'll admit that there were one or two others in the group that were fairly new to raiding as well but all had more experience than I did, and I still out DPS'd everyone there.
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09-22-08, 05:15 PM   #13
Kleo
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I think a mix of blues/purples are fine for doing heroics, if the person knows how to play.

However, I do take issue with people who don't gem their epics and good blue 70 gear (even with cheap gems), and with people who have great end-game gear but don't enchant it (even cheaper enchants). Or people who get to 70 and don't wear 2 trinkets and 2 rings. Maybe that's high standards, and I allow for people who just got the gear and haven't had a chance to gem/enchant it yet, but if you can't take the effort to take care of the good pieces, I tend to have doubts that you'll make the effort to play well. And this may be awful, but I also tend to judge people on their gems and enchants. If you're a pure dps caster, and are using healing gems or melee gems, I'll assume you don't know your class, for example. I also don't care to bring someone to a heroic if they don't have a threat meter installed. Maybe this makes me a jerk. *shrug*

Note: Not saying any of this specifically applys to the OP, but having some kind of "geared" standard isn't inherently bad IMO.
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09-22-08, 06:17 PM   #14
Rigorous
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Originally Posted by Kleo View Post
people who get to 70 and don't wear 2 trinkets and 2 rings. Maybe that's high standards <snip> If you're a pure dps caster, and are using healing gems or melee gems, I'll assume you don't know your class <snip> Maybe this makes me a jerk.
i wouldn't say this makes you a jerk, nor is it particularly "high standards", but i also don't think it really means that you are applying some type of "geared standard": it just means you expect them to have the most basic understanding of their class and an IQ above that of my kitchen sponge.

that is an entirely reasonable expectation.
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09-22-08, 07:27 PM   #15
Kaomie
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I would like to play as the devil's advocate here (like I usually do) but somehow I feel this may not be wise. Maybe the "rant" keyword is my hint. Anyway I think Shirik summarized it pretty well couple posts ago: either you do not care and you move on or you do care and find a Guild or new friends to play the way you want to. By the way this was a very demeaning comment toward kitchen sponges. I hope we are talking synthetic ones.
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09-23-08, 09:10 AM   #16
Gandoch
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Originally Posted by littlebuddha79 View Post
You do NOT need full epics to kill a lvl 73 elite
And I said as much.
Originally Posted by littlebuddha79 View Post
you do not need full epics to have you gear considered "not terrible"
Yes, you do. Full epics doesn't require a lot of raiding anymore. Hell, it doesn't require raiding at all. With the advent of Heroics and MASSIVE AMOUNTS of PvP gear you can get full epics just by... what was it, oh yeah, playing. Just like everyone else. I understand he was only 70 for two days, but if you aren't in full epics and your gear is easily replaced by simply running 5 mans and battlegrounds... it's bad. I don't know how else to put that.
Originally Posted by littlebuddha79 View Post
I'm not big on raiding (mostly due to the proliferation of attitudes like this), but I have been in Kara once and cleared the 1st boss.
Well aren't you the authority on raiding, then.
Originally Posted by littlebuddha79 View Post
At the time I was a MM/SV Hunter with most of my points in MM and SV to get improved traps. Me and another hunter in the raid were passing a mob back and forth in freezing traps to keep it out of the fight throughout all the pulls up to the boss, so I wasn't DPSing the entire time, and I still got TOP DPS in a raid full of players with full epics. All I had was 4 pieces of the Stalker Set(Blue) a couple other random blues from Auchidon, the PVP Crossbow and the lvl 62 engineering goggles(the only 2 purples I had). I'll admit that there were one or two others in the group that were fairly new to raiding as well but all had more experience than I did, and I still out DPS'd everyone there.
I'm pretty sure I never said that good gear makes a good player, I said people generally assume people with bad gear are inexperienced. Having epics clearly didn't stop anyone in "that group you ran Kara with that one time" from being horrible.

Gear doesn't make the player, but if you don't understand that it helps and that your character is limited by their stats, I don't know what to tell you.

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09-23-08, 09:17 AM   #17
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Sometimes you can have all the gear in the world and still be a noob, I've seen huntards in full t6 who still don't know how to trap properly

sometimes you just have to step back and take a laugh
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09-23-08, 10:13 AM   #18
Elloria
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Originally Posted by Gandoch View Post
And I said as much. Yes, you do. Full epics doesn't require a lot of raiding anymore. Hell, it doesn't require raiding at all. With the advent of Heroics and MASSIVE AMOUNTS of PvP gear you can get full epics just by... what was it, oh yeah, playing. Just like everyone else. I understand he was only 70 for two days, but if you aren't in full epics and your gear is easily replaced by simply running 5 mans and battlegrounds... it's bad. I don't know how else to put that. Well aren't you the authority on raiding, then.I'm pretty sure I never said that good gear makes a good player, I said people generally assume people with bad gear are inexperienced. Having epics clearly didn't stop anyone in "that group you ran Kara with that one time" from being horrible.

Gear doesn't make the player, but if you don't understand that it helps and that your character is limited by their stats, I don't know what to tell you.

Phanx: Thanks for not being an imbecile.
Hey now lets not result in calling each other names. Really again your "view" on gear is messed up. That or you don't understand the meaning of the word terrible. Having all blues and a few epics does not mean you have terrible gear. Your gear may not be amazing but its not terrible. there are lots of blues that are better then some of these "so called epics". Also just because you can get epics in pvp doesnt mean they are good for raiding with. They have lots of crit stam and resilience. Which last time i checked isnt the best for pve(especially the resilience part)
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09-23-08, 10:58 AM   #19
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Keep the discussions civil, please.

And, yes, I question some people's definition of the word "terrible" as well...


terrible (tĕr'ə-bəl)

adj.
  1. Causing great fear or alarm; dreadful: a terrible bolt of lightning; a terrible curse.
  2. Extremely formidable: terrible responsibilities.
  3. Extreme in extent or degree; intense: “the life for which he had paid so terrible a price” (Leslie Fiedler).
    1. Unpleasant; disagreeable: had a terrible time at the party; terrible food.
    2. Very bad: a terrible actor.
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin terribilis, from terrēre, to frighten.]
terribleness ter'ri·ble·ness n.
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09-23-08, 11:25 AM   #20
Arabeth
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Originally Posted by Gandoch View Post
Nobody is obliged to take someone with them to do anything in this game.
Originally Posted by Arabeth View Post
If that were true, why do we have LFG??
Originally Posted by Phanx View Post
Listing yourself in the LFG tool does not obligate other people to invite you to their group or take you to an instance. Likewise, when you use the LFG tool to build a group, you are not obligated to bring any particular person who is listed therein.
Not a specific person, no. If you could play the entire game solo and not be obliged to "take someone with ... [you] ... to do anything in ...[the] ..game", then fair enough. As that is not the case, the original quote is both syntactically and semantically incorrect. Sorry to be pedantic!
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