Are gear rating add-ons beginning to wreck the game?

[Neef]

Summary up to this point:

-Said addons originally designed in order to allow guilds and friends to help each other.
-Elitist Jerks (not the theorycrafters, but the actual jerks) misusing addons is bad.
-Something should be done, but no one really knows what.



I'm in agreement that it is too easy to obtain "epic" gear. Yet, the fact that someone does not have 'perplz' should not be a factor in judging how good they are with the class.

For high-end raids I can understand the need for prerequisites, but the subject seems to be heroics and beginning raids.

Everyone seems to have forgotten december 2008. When EVERYONE was running around in greens and blues; and how did we do? Everyone did perfectly fine.
The occasional death in HoL or UP was chalked up to not completely knowing the fights.

Over time as people began farming naxx, voa, os, and maly, the amount of epics in the game grew and grew. The relative cheapness of emblem gear didn't help. Epics no longer feel, well, 'epic'. People only see the color of the item name or item level and base judgements on that.

Case in point - Was working on my shaman alt one day when a well known jerk was looking for another DPS for H-HoL. At the time, I still needed something from there, so I responded.
Neeph has a good set of resto gear (being my main spec) and a set for enhancement made of mostly blues and a green or three.
My resto set was equipped while he did the gear check. I believe his words were, "This group might be ok. everyone's over 2k ilvl."

Only after Loken was dead and I did 2.2k dps overall (2.4k on bosses) did he notice I wasn't in all purples. After a bit of berating about 'deceit' and 'carrying me' did I point out that I beat his guildie in full naxx25 gear by 300 dps.

But that's just one of the countless stories out there.

When running pugs, I always stand up for the "under geared". Having taken a 2 year hiatus from WoW (from between AQ to BT) I can relate to people trying to do easy content and being judged. Anyone that uses an addon to "screen" people from anything but ToC 10/25 or Uld 25 is put on my Bad Players list.

All in all, that's about the only thing we can do in the short-term to stem the "X-box Live" feel (no offense meant to those decent people that also play on X-box)... not patronize them.

[Republic]

Originally Posted by Neef Summary up to this point: -Said addons originally designed in order to allow guilds and friends to help each other. -Elitist Jerks (not the theorycrafters, but the actual jerks) misusing addons is bad. -Something should be done, but no one really knows what. I'm in agreement that it is too easy to obtain "epic" gear. Yet, the fact that someone does not have 'perplz' should not be a factor in judging how good they are with the class. For high-end raids I can understand the need for prerequisites, but the subject seems to be heroics and beginning raids. Everyone seems to have forgotten december 2008. When EVERYONE was running around in greens and blues; and how did we do? Everyone did perfectly fine. The occasional death in HoL or UP was chalked up to not completely knowing the fights. Over time as people began farming naxx, voa, os, and maly, the amount of epics in the game grew and grew. The relative cheapness of emblem gear didn't help. Epics no longer feel, well, 'epic'. People only see the color of the item name or item level and base judgements on that. Case in point - Was working on my shaman alt one day when a well known jerk was looking for another DPS for H-HoL. At the time, I still needed something from there, so I responded. Neeph has a good set of resto gear (being my main spec) and a set for enhancement made of mostly blues and a green or three. My resto set was equipped while he did the gear check. I believe his words were, "This group might be ok. everyone's over 2k ilvl." Only after Loken was dead and I did 22k dps overall (24k on bosses) did he notice I wasn't in all purples. After a bit of berating about 'deceit' and 'carrying me' did I point out that I beat his guildie in full naxx25 gear by 300 dps. But that's just one of the countless stories out there. When running pugs, I always stand up for the "under geared". Having taken a 2 year hiatus from WoW (from between AQ to BT) I can relate to people trying to do easy content and being judged. Anyone that uses an addon to "screen" people from anything but ToC 10/25 or Uld 25 is put on my Bad Players list. All in all, that's about the only thing we can do in the short-term to stem the "X-box Live" feel (no offense meant to those decent people that also play on X-box)... not patronize them.

I agree with your stance on things. The thing I don't get is why people all of a sudden require 2k dps for simple 5 man heroics. It simply isn't needed. I'm a good enough tank to work a little harder if need be so that "fresh 80's" can get some upgrades, etc. I can also say that 2k dps is not a standard by which other dps should be judged for 5 man heroics. I've had successful runs with everything from 800 dps dk's (yes, true story) to 4k dps mages. Obviously, more dps is better, but the game is sometimes about cooperation and helping others advance for themselves. I realize that's a rare opinion but that's the way I am and play.

Gear checking for heroics and even 10 man raids is a little ridiculous. I think most people know their own limitations and won't really try to tank Ulduar with quest reward greens. Well, most mature people won't and that's the only kind of player I'm interested in running with.

We can fix gear. We can't fix stupid.

[Limb0]

Originally Posted by Republic Gear checking for heroics and even 10 man raids is a little ridiculous.

(Aside)
I find it disappointing that so many players downgrade the 10 Man. I've been in two 10 Man Progression guilds and I will tell you without a doubt that those were the most fun guilds that I've been in to date. Synergy is and always will be my focus in the game and coming together as a 10 Man within a guild is great for general morale and for building your understanding of raid mechanics and teamwork. Take two of these teams and bring them together for 25 and kiss the nerdrage goodbye..

Since the patch made t8 more readily available, there pretty much is no excuse not to have it along with some 219. Recently I've met a few toons who did exactly this and never stepped foot into Naxx or Uld and pretty much were going straight for 25 Trials. On one hand I think this is bad, but on the other hand I can see the sense it makes for the new-to-WoW player (new content is always the most interesting and should be made reasonably available to the new customer).


Gearchecking
If you're in greens or blues, you really have no place in Uld or Trials. Heroics are where you should be for the moment to build your teamwork skills and learn your class and movement. Eventually you'll be in all epics but the gearcheck will now focus on your enchants and gems.

If you pug, expect to be gearchecked. It's the same as filling an app for an accomplished guild (might seem ridiculous to you, but try to see it from both sides.. the players you want to group with don't know anything about you aside from what a quick gearcheck addon can do, or looking up your achievements). The best advice I can offer is to just thank your group and whomever invited you, add them to your friends list and just get known. Connections are the best way to pug and overpower the gearcheck.

[Psychophan7]

Originally Posted by Limb0 Gearchecking If you're in greens or blues, you really have no place in Uld or Trials.

http://www.wow.com/2009/09/02/yogg-saron-in-blues/

Who needs purples?

[Limb0]

Originally Posted by Psychophan7 http://www.wow.com/2009/09/02/yogg-saron-in-blues/ Who needs purples?

There are definitely exceptional players all around, and this is a great example of what can be achieved with the right synergy (yay 10 Mans). It's kind of tongue in cheek to the discussion going on in this thread though, which addresses more of the hurdles that upcoming players are having with pugging.

-

Maybe the real question is, who needs 23 others?
2 Man Heroic (25man) Flame Leviathan Ravencrest EU

[forty2j]

Originally Posted by Republic I agree with your stance on things. The thing I don't get is why people all of a sudden require 2k dps for simple 5 man heroics. It simply isn't needed.

I wish there was a Neon sign on every instance portal with those words.

When my Ret Pally got her Bronze Drake from the Heroic CoS achievement, she put out ~1800 dps. And topped the chart. Good group coordination (despite it being a PuG), not RAWR power, won the day.. and we finished it with 5 min to spare.

[tralkar]

First off I would'nt even wanted to go with fools like that. If i know what I'm doing and my gear ain't perfect it should'nt matter.
Next time you see those fools just do a "%^&*" and walk on by..

[Republic]

Originally Posted by forty2j I wish there was a Neon sign on every instance portal with those words. When my Ret Pally got her Bronze Drake from the Heroic CoS achievement, she put out ~1800 dps. And topped the chart. Good group coordination (despite it being a PuG), not RAWR power, won the day.. and we finished it with 5 min to spare.

On my final COS timed run (I don't have a need to go there anymore because of my drake and shield), I remember it well. I had a dps dk on the run doing just under 1100 dps. All I know about him was that he had fairly good gear and wasn't trigger happy with his death grip (which as sad as things have become - that marks a mighty fine DK in my view). I don't really know why his dps was that low, it must have been his rotation or something. I didn't have time to pay close attention to him because well, I was tanking and pulling the gauntlet to move us through fast. It was a successful run and I won the drake roll (ironic that it was between me and the dk, I guess karma was in my favor that I wasn't jumping on him for low dps output).

Anyway, the only point I'm making is that I honestly rarely run with anyone who does over 2k dps in 5 man heroics. It's no big deal to me. More is nice, but not required. Another relevant point to this thread is the fact that this guy might have actually had a high gear score with low dps. I didn't inspect him so I don't know for sure, but I recognized a few pieces as higher end stuff (his weapon, etc.). So much for indications of potential provided by the throng of rating systems eh?

I'm feeling like this topic has run its course. Onward and upward.