Concerned Subscriptionist.

[Nestria]

Well, when I first heard that blizzard wasn't allowing anyone to charge for addons anymore I figured that would be the end of carbonite. I was happy to find out that you had switched to a donation system. I can't say that I'm really pleased with the new idea of paying to vote for new content, but hey whatever works for you guys.

The thing that does bother me is the fact that I was a yearly paid subscriber and my subscription isn't up until June or July. However, the quality of carbonite has already dropped off very badly since the 3.11 release. That update was supposed to add the new quests for the argent tournament, but it doesn't actually include all the quests, only the first set that you get. My carbonite doesn't give information for any of the champion quests... Not that they are really that hard to find, but it's still incomplete. Not to mention that for some reason, since the patch my large map has been acting like a huge mini map. It shows specific ground detail instead of the colored standard map that you would see in the normal blizzard map. This also messes with the map overlays for the location of quest components. If I zoom out on the map, it goes back to the other map style, but I have no idea why it's started doing this or how to make it stop and it's very annoying to have to zoom out every time I open the map to make it look normal again.

Is this what I should come to expect out of the future of Carbonite? I would like to think if I choose to make donations that I would continue to get the same support and updates that we always had. It seemed like before Carbonite was getting updated every 2 to 3 days sometimes. I'm sure things are a little more difficult now and you can't depend on the addon as a steady source of income anymore, but if I'm going to make donations, I would at least like to see updates every 2 weeks, if there is clearly things that need to be addressed, like the lack of final quests for argent tournament and this new map problem.

Am I just completely out in left field here or does anyone else feel this way?

[Jezzabel]

Personally I dont complain.

I paid before Blizz decision and still not regret it.

And from memory except for urgent fix I dont remember a new version every two weeks.

Now you have to think that Blizz has changed a lot of things in this patch. Even other addons had to work on Minimap (the famous facing...., rotation, the way the changes some textures and on and on and on).

Authors are not with the Blizz gods to know before release what is everything and they kindly adjust things. They need time, and their time is --I hope--- not only dedicated to the addons, but rather to their family, friends, game and work :P.

Now rather to complain, I would just post things to help them :
- list of the missing quests, not only the title but try to find a bit more so they dont have to look for each little detail
- For the map, a lot of users can help you to find out how to set it up as you like.

etc etc

So my words would be : P A T I E N C E and be grateful they work for us, they just could decide to simply do the addon for themselves and let us in the dark but they bring us some shiny pleasure to play a game that would certainly be less enjoyable without.

[Apraxia]

or hey, you could just remove carbonite from your addons all together, unsubscribe from the forums, and cancel your remainder subscription. Doing this you just MIGHT achieve something like 'not knowing the existance of ANY carbonite'

but who the hell would want that?

Remember guys:

donation, balance remaining subscriptions, yadda yadda allows carbonite to continue development point blank regardless of a 'premium' feature or not. I can't say I've seen more than maybe 2 at most other addons that show the dedication, skill, and awesomeness that Carbonite does.

(blatant nUI boasting in that comment above )

[Petrah]

I have to agree with the original post. However, I'm not complaining. Merely voicing my feelings (even if they are unpopular). Yes, I will compare nUI's creator to Carbonites creators. You can definitely tell that the same level of care and hard work goes into nUI as before, whereas with Carbonite you can definitely tell the level of care and work in Carbonite has declined.

[Apraxia]

Originally Posted by Silenia I have to agree with the original post. However, I'm not complaining. Merely voicing my feelings (even if they are unpopular). Yes, I will compare nUI's creator to Carbonites creators. You can definitely tell that the same level of care and hard work goes into nUI as before, whereas with Carbonite you can definitely tell the level of care and work in Carbonite has declined.

I think that has a lot to do with the different obligating factors to each author's addon (nUI vs carb). While I don't see a decline persay, rather less frequent implementations of more desireable features (which is a biggie to myself I will admit). I'm sure (or hope, actually) as the rush of all these changes settles perhaps carbonite can pick up the pace and figure something out to help us supporters get our 'fix'

Meh, now I'm depressed, I want all my paid addons back with their paid features. But still, I'm thankful to have left of my favorites that there is now. -silent emo sad-

[Petrah]

Originally Posted by Apraxia I think that has a lot to do with the different obligating factors to each author's addon (nUI vs carb).

Yes, you are right. Excellent point!

Originally Posted by Apraxia While I don't see a decline persay, rather less frequent implementations of more desireable features (which is a biggie to myself I will admit). I'm sure (or hope, actually) as the rush of all these changes settles perhaps carbonite can pick up the pace and figure something out to help us supporters get our 'fix' Meh, now I'm depressed, I want all my paid addons back with their paid features. But still, I'm thankful to have left of my favorites that there is now. -silent emo sad-

I just, oh I dunno. I wish I could see the same zeal in Carbonite that they put in it before. And I do understand why it's not the same (shakes fist at the evil policy).

I totally lost my train of thought. Meh

[stormkeep]

Originally Posted by Nestria Not to mention that for some reason, since the patch my large map has been acting like a huge mini map. It shows specific ground detail instead of the colored standard map that you would see in the normal blizzard map. This also messes with the map overlays for the location of quest components. If I zoom out on the map, it goes back to the other map style, but I have no idea why it's started doing this or how to make it stop and it's very annoying to have to zoom out every time I open the map to make it look normal again.

I don't want to comment on the bulk of your post, but the above quoted part is the bulk of the basis for your complaint and is, in fact, your own fault I think. It sounds like you have the map set to autozoom and it is doing it to the zoom level that "details at zoom" is set to.

Why is this affecting you now? Because the patch reset the map settings to defaults and you have not yet restored everything to how you had it setup prior to the patch. The change log did mention that this was part of the update, so if you knew you wouldn't remember how you had things setup you really ought to have wrote down your preferences before updating the addon.

[Kingyoshi9]

Originally Posted by Nestria The thing that does bother me is the fact that I was a yearly paid subscriber and my subscription isn't up until June or July.

Back to what the OP was saying.

I do not think its fair that those who paid for a full year in advance (myself also being one of them) are not entitled to a full year of the same "quality" updates.

Would you not be able to keep updating carbonite and having people pay until their subscriptions are up? Because I don't think Blizzard can take away a service that has already been paid for, that they do not directly own.

They can ban your account, they can change the policies they have on addons, but I do not believe they can circumvent and cause VALID businesses, to well... go out of business.

[Pyrophoric]

This is a great addon but if you dont really have the time to maintain it then let others help. You dont have the time to support but there is still an expectation of donations. Those donations are going to start falling when the support does. Its and unfortunate cycle...

Eventually, that 25% would be closer to 1% and you might not find the time to support it at all. Instead of letting it get to that point, let others contribute with their time and expertise. Then, those of us who cant contribute in that way can still donate money.

Edit:

I was going to mention this before but it probably wouldn't work. Couldn't you require that people have a login to download and go back to only hosting Carb on your own website. In order to download, people would have to pay for the bandwidth and time spent updating the website, you could associate a fee per download.

Yes, you couldn't restrict the software so it would enable people to simply share it with their friends but it might be better then relying on donations.

Don't let any other site host Carb and just see if people pay for downloads. You could still offer a donation link for those who want to give more.

[Haavok]

Originally Posted by Pyrophoric This is a great addon but if you dont really have the time to maintain it then let others help. You dont have the time to support but there is still an expectation of donations. Those donations are going to start falling when the support does. Its and unfortunate cycle... Eventually, that 25% would be closer to 1% and you might not find the time to support it at all. Instead of letting it get to that point, let others contribute with their time and expertise. Then, those of us who cant contribute in that way can still donate money. Edit: I was going to mention this before but it probably wouldn't work. Couldn't you require that people have a login to download and go back to only hosting Carb on your own website. In order to download, people would have to pay for the bandwidth and time spent updating the website, you could associate a fee per download. Yes, you couldn't restrict the software so it would enable people to simply share it with their friends but it might be better then relying on donations. Don't let any other site host Carb and just see if people pay for downloads. You could still offer a donation link for those who want to give more.

While we may not be devoting as many hours to it as we did before, we are still working on it, fixing bugs, updating the database and working on new features. What exactly aren't you getting that you were before?

As to your second point, we can not charge for the addon and paying for access to a site to download the addon is the same thing.

[Pyrophoric]

Originally Posted by Haavok While we may not be devoting as many hours to it as we did before, we are still working on it, fixing bugs, updating the database and working on new features. What exactly aren't you getting that you were before? As to your second point, we can not charge for the addon and paying for access to a site to download the addon is the same thing.

You are not paying to access the addon, you are paying to access the site. However, it just so happens that you cannot get carb anywhere else and you cant download it from the official site unless you have an account.

As I said, people would in no way be paying for the addon. They would be paying for the bandwidth used to download it and site maintenance. If someone wanted to share the addon with a friend, there is nothing stopping them. The only catch is you dont want it actually HOSTED on another site.

Honestly, I don't really have much of a problem with the plugin right now. Yeah, I would like the quests to really be cleaned up and have noticed minor bugs but nothing that is actually breaking the whole thing. I have noticed that it isn't being updated as often but not sure if thats a good thing or a bad. But it is fact that it hasn't been updated as often.

Really, I was just responding to the post saying that there isnt as much time to devote to the addon. If you feel that is going to cause it to suffer in any way or if it already has, open it up so people can contribute before it starts to fall apart.

[Unbelievable]

The thing is, Blizzard's new policy could have completely killed off Carbonite. Thankfully it hasn't *touch wood*

Paying for a mod is a bit like buying a plant from a garden centre. If you get the plant home and it dies a few months later, tough: The soil / light conditions (aka wow policy and API) aren't within the control of the garden centre (aka Carbonite team). No guarentees implied or implicitly stated.

While Carbonite may or may not be flourishing quite as well as before, it's hardly a withering wreck either. It's still the best mod for WoW by far. And still the only mod I consider inextricably tied to my enjoyment of the game (ie. If Carbonite dies, my WoW subs die with it - are you listening Blizzard?!).

TBH blame Blizzard for making such a stupid policy. You pay for their service too, and they (Blizzard) are using your money to muck about with other folks (addon authors) distribution rights of non-derivative works, with potentially far reaching results.

I hope Carbonite support continues regardless.

Edit: Altered analogy slightly - changes in italics

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Pyrophoric You are not paying to access the addon, you are paying to access the site. However, it just so happens that you cannot get carb anywhere else and you cant download it from the official site unless you have an account. As I said, people would in no way be paying for the addon. They would be paying for the bandwidth used to download it and site maintenance. If someone wanted to share the addon with a friend, there is nothing stopping them. The only catch is you dont want it actually HOSTED on another site. Honestly, I don't really have much of a problem with the plugin right now. Yeah, I would like the quests to really be cleaned up and have noticed minor bugs but nothing that is actually breaking the whole thing. I have noticed that it isn't being updated as often but not sure if thats a good thing or a bad. But it is fact that it hasn't been updated as often. Really, I was just responding to the post saying that there isnt as much time to devote to the addon. If you feel that is going to cause it to suffer in any way or if it already has, open it up so people can contribute before it starts to fall apart.

Did you even use Carbonite 6 months ago?

This was exactly what they did. Every downloaded was keyed to your subscription. Your subscription was tied to your ability to download a working version. It was connected to one key character.

They are not allowed to do this anymore per the add-on policy.

Have you posted the bugs you are aware of on the correct forum? They are not going to be fixed unless YOU do this.

[Daxal]

Originally Posted by Pyrophoric Really, I was just responding to the post saying that there isnt as much time to devote to the addon. If you feel that is going to cause it to suffer in any way or if it already has, open it up so people can contribute before it starts to fall apart.

Totally agree, if you open the addon and make it open source maybe you wont earn as much much but it gives an option to very many people t help on the addon and make new features. Im not at addon author myself but i will gladly help on the webpage as i am a web designer.

Please open the source even for a trail for like 14 days let people help you and develop the addon.

[thunndaar]

Originally Posted by Haavok While we may not be devoting as many hours to it as we did before, we are still working on it, fixing bugs, updating the database and working on new features. What exactly aren't you getting that you were before? As to your second point, we can not charge for the addon and paying for access to a site to download the addon is the same thing.

well regarding your last post [salary reduction, anticipating more money] , dont count your chickens before they're hatched.

also one things that concerns me is this 'we' stuff. there is only one person working on this, am i right? you do not have to use the term 'we' to appear bigger than what you are, i've seen this [and done this] in the past.

thanks for carbonite i really enjoy it!

[carboniteaddon]

Originally Posted by thunndaar also one things that concerns me is this 'we' stuff. there is only one person working on this, am i right? you do not have to use the term 'we' to appear bigger than what you are, i've seen this [and done this] in the past.

Carbon Based Creations, LLC is owned by 3 people, so when I say we, I mean the 3 of us. I work on the addon. Haavok works on the database and related tools. The third person does business stuff. We also had a part time forums guy back when we were selling subscriptions, but he was laid off.

[Unbelievable]

Originally Posted by Nestria Not to mention that for some reason, since the patch my large map has been acting like a huge mini map. It shows specific ground detail instead of the colored standard map that you would see in the normal blizzard map. This also messes with the map overlays for the location of quest components. If I zoom out on the map, it goes back to the other map style, but I have no idea why it's started doing this or how to make it stop and it's very annoying to have to zoom out every time I open the map to make it look normal again.

It's working fine here. But try the following:-

Switch off quest tracking (the magenta button). Zoom the map to desired zoom. Right click map. Save default zoom option from the menu. Re-enable quest tracking.

If that doesn't fix it, right click the map and play with "details at scale" and the top slider which specifies how far the map will autozoom out. It's probably worth noting the current scale values down before you start tinkering with them.

Without WoW open I can't give you more precise instructions, but I'm sure you'll manage

[carboniteaddon]

Originally Posted by Nestria However, the quality of carbonite has already dropped off very badly since the 3.11 release. That update was supposed to add the new quests for the argent tournament, but it doesn't actually include all the quests, only the first set that you get. My carbonite doesn't give information for any of the champion quests... Not that they are really that hard to find, but it's still incomplete.

True, 3.11 had basically the first half of the new quests, which were the ones we had done and had submitted data on. We didn't have much data for the second half until the time 3.12 was released.

Originally Posted by Nestria Not to mention that for some reason, since the patch my large map has been acting like a huge mini map. It shows specific ground detail instead of the colored standard map that you would see in the normal blizzard map. This also messes with the map overlays for the location of quest components. If I zoom out on the map, it goes back to the other map style, but I have no idea why it's started doing this or how to make it stop and it's very annoying to have to zoom out every time I open the map to make it look normal again.

That was an intentional settings change, not anything to do with quality. The Scale... submenu of the main Carb map menu had the Details At Scale default changed to 2 instead of 4 and we reapplied some map defaults to get everyone's settings consistent. Quest locations are not effected by that setting.