Warcraft helps catch a crook - Page 2

MidgetMage55 · 01-05-10, 07:39 PM

While I'm not a goody goody the real issue here is not so much how far will they go (in this case a multiple count felony) but our perception of which laws are over the top. I agree that some of the drug laws are hold overs from a dead and gone era.

As it stands it is on felony drug charges and by the judges estimation it warranted issue of a subpoena. If it had been a misdemeanor i would personally believe it would have been denied. Then again i doubt this guy would have run to Canada over something that minor.

Bluspacecow · 01-07-10, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by ChaosInc

Think about that after the cops are knocking on your door to arrest you for that driving under suspension ticket you got 10 years ago in some other state you forgot about. Then, after released, you go to your favorite gaming site and find a story posted about how they turned your ass in. See if you share the same opinion then.

But there is a reason why Cases get closed and unsolved.

Like anywhere law enforcement does not have an unlimited budget to investigate things. So they would need to prioritize what they investigate and how much time they devote to it.

An investigation into a traffic offense ? Fairly minor , it's like hounding you 5 years after the fact for a parking ticket. And against crimes like Murder , Child prostitution and Terrorism ? Might as well not exist !

Also 10 years after the fact would after the statute of limitations of when you could be convicted for it wouldn't it ?

To make it worthwhile law enforcement would need to link it with getting you in for questioning as a suspect of a more serious crime.

As for the question of how I feel about it ? I broke the law i would expect law enforcement to use every resource in their power to convict me.

Mind you this is the day and age that crims sue cops for breaking their wrists when detaining them....

Bluspacecow · 01-07-10, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by MidgetMage55

While I'm not a goody goody the real issue here is not so much how far will they go (in this case a multiple count felony) but our perception of which laws are over the top. I agree that some of the drug laws are hold overs from a dead and gone era. .

B-b-b-b-but I really wanted to cross state lines with a duck taped to my head.

And paint a duck Blue in Kentucky and sell just the one ! I can't get 6 other ducks to hold still to paint them blue !

I is sad nao

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ed_states.html

Disclaimed : Found that through a quick google search. Article is dated from May 2007. So I don't know how many of those laws have been thrown out.

But the duck taped to my head one !

Travesty of Justice ! A travesty I tell you ! A travesty !

LittleWhiteDove · 01-07-10, 10:33 AM

The following article is from The Ottawa Citizen Newspaper, January 6, 2010 edition.
I have underlined paragraph regarding the court order which appears to have only netted the authorities the ip address.
So - where did the rest of the information come from - the internet provider and not Blizzard would be my guess.

Fugitive nabbed in world wide web

Suspected American drug dealer picked up in Ottawa after authorities trace him through popular online game

By Brett Ruskin

An American fugitive was removed from Ottawa last week, thanks to his passion for the online game World of Warcraft.

Alfred Hightower was known online as Rastlynn, a heavily armoured gorilla-faced character, with a football player's heft and spiked club hands.

To authorities in Indiana, he was known as a drug dealer.

Hightower arrived back in Indiana Tuesday afternoon and was arrested on controlled-substance charges dating back to 2007.

He had been hiding in Canada for more than two years. Unfortunately for him, he passed the time playing World of Warcraft, the world's largest online video game. As with all 14 million other users of the game, the developer, Blizzard Entertainment, had a file on Hightower.

"I sent a court order to the gaming site," said Matt Roberson, the Howard County Sheriff's Department deputy assigned to the case. "They provided me with an IP address. I did a search and received longitude and latitude with that."

The IP address gives each web-accessing computer a unique online identity, as well as general geographic location.

Roberson knew Hightower was in the Ottawa area. To bring him back to Indiana, he had to involve the United States Marshals, the Canada Border Services Agency and the RCMP.

"Canada just literally transported him to the border," said Sheriff's Deputy Steve Rogers, Roberson's supervisor. "U.S. Marshal services was there to take custody of him."

Canadian officials could not be reached for comment.

Blizzard Entertainment broke no law, as World of Warcraft's terms of use allow them to disclose requested personal information to authorities.

However, since Hightower's arrest, online forums have ignited with discussion about the disclosure of personal information. Many of the game's users wrote they didn't know they could be tracked that way.

This isn't the first time Roberson has used the Internet to make an arrest.

He was able to nab a drug dealer in Kokomo, Indiana, on Tuesday after tracking him down on social networking site Facebook.

"I knew the guy's name but I had no idea what he looked like. So I plugged his name into Facebook and there he was -- along with incriminating messages on his wall and a picture of him in a motel with a stack of money and some marijuana," Roberson said.

Hightower will make his first court appearance later this week. If found guilty, he faces up to 10 years in prison.

During that time, without a computer, he could save up to $1,800 in online subscription fees for World of Warcraft.
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

Grimsin · 01-07-10, 11:18 AM

From the looks of things most of these including hightower are marijuana related. How many crack heads function enough to raid? I would say they are being ridiculous still. After all... Obhama did just release a statement saying the federal government no longer views marijuana as a high priority and they will not prosecute people holding state issued medical marijuana cards. I think this guy was just looking for same fame and glory. Knowing full well how the police work i would not even be surprised to learn half of it was made up hear say by the police with no real basis. After all.... i would flee the country to if i was suspected of anything major by the police whether i did it or not. Guilty until proven innocent folks. Whats it take for some of you to see the truth? hmmm? when your own children are wrongfully accused? or better yet yourself? Or when something minor is over blown by the police and you are sent to jail for some minor thing and in jail you witness things that end up destroying the rest of your life? You know prison makes criminals. Someone who was not really a criminal but was in the wrong place at the wrong time and ends up in jail will almost undoubtedly become a criminal afterwords.

Lets not even talk about court costs, most people, innocent people, go to jail simply because they can not afford an attorney and public pretenders are not on your side! They get paid by the government. Do you really think they want to help you fight said entity? of course not. They play golf with the judge. Eat lunch with the cops while the jurry's out on your trial. Lets say you can afford an attorney, do you know why they like extensions and thats always the first thing out of their mouth? because it means more money. Trust me most of them are also eating lunch with the cops and playing golf with the judge. More then likely they are in cahoots to drag it out so that all sides make as much money off you as possible. Even if you dont go to jail you end up with hefty court fees and outrageous probation demands.

I beg you, if your response to all this is that they were doing whats right. Rethink the whole thing.

Was it right when they were storming a house of a suspected drug dealer in Los Angeles, a little boy heard noise outside went out with a flash light to see what was going on and was shot over 15 times by the police as he came out the front door?

Was it right when the sheriff in a small town in Montana had the local children as sex slaves and the whole town in fear.

Was it right when guards at LA County jail boiled a man to death in a pressure cooker because he smelled bad?

Was it right when a prison had a bring your child to work day and they lined them all up and tazzered them with 50k volts and thought it was funny?

When the inmates of another prison must pick the ****rouchs out of their food before eating it because it has been left to sit in a hallway for hours before serving purely because the officers did not feel like dealing with it?

Or the man who died of heart attack because the police didnt listen to him when he needed heart medication they locked him in a small room for many hours when he went into seizures they still did nothing despite the other inmates screaming for help. He died before anyone ever came in to retrieve him.

I witnessed my self or know personally the people involved in most of these incidents and this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Grimsin · 01-07-10, 11:44 AM

so just so you all know i do not believe in anarchy, i think we need law and order but i KNOW we need to rethink the whole thing. The best post made here is the one that says do something about it. Please do! I have been fighting for years for medical marijuana its now legal where i live and has become a major industry over night. Old in the box thinkers are disgusted by this but you know what disgusts me? watching my mother die a horrid death from cancer knowing full well the benefits she would have from it but she refused because it was still illegal. The $100 per pill, anti nausea pills that she had to take multiple times a day that left the once $1,000,000.00 in assets that she had reduced to $7,000.00 that i got in the end because of medical bills and funeral costs. Those pills and numerous others could all have been replaced by marijuana.

I now after years of PTSD, caused by you guessed it the craziness i saw in jail in California and outside of it to, was left with savvier khrons disses, basically ulcerates, colitis, gastritis all rolled into one, they also found a palyup not to long ago, considering the history of cancer in my family its a safe bet on it being cancer. I luckily can smoke marijuana legally. Without it i would be constantly sick and unable to eat. Going broke to boot on doctor bills and medication.

You want to talk about whats right? Doing whats right? Start showing a little more compassion and understanding for your fellow man. Ill bet Hightower was someones son, brother maybe even, Father possibly? Husband? What if he was your family? Would you not want some compassion shown in the mater? Maybe all he was doing was selling marijuana? maybe many of those people buying it were like me? or my mother? Or maybe some of you have sick family? hmmm? Now those people are without to. Whats right in any of this?

Vyper · 01-07-10, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Grimsin

From the looks of things most of these including hightower are marijuana related.

Where are you getting this? I've seen no hint of that.

Originally Posted by Grimsin

How many crack heads function enough to raid?

From many of the raids I've been on, I'd say most of them. Also dealing often doesn't mean using. Many of your middle->upper management drug dealers know just how bad their product will screw them up, and avoid it like the plague.

Originally Posted by Grimsin

I think this guy was just looking for same fame and glory. Knowing full well how the police work i would not even be surprised to learn half of it was made up hear say by the police with no real basis. After all.... i would flee the country to if i was suspected of anything major by the police whether i did it or not. Guilty until proven innocent folks.

I must've missed the part where he is being denied a trial?

Originally Posted by Grimsin

Lets not even talk about court costs, most people, innocent people, go to jail simply because they can not afford an attorney and public pretenders are not on your side! They get paid by the government. Do you really think they want to help you fight said entity? of course not. They play golf with the judge. Eat lunch with the cops while the jurry's out on your trial.

I imagine they are just like cops, constructions workers, and clowns: some are bad, some are good. Claiming all public defenders (or even most) are out to get you is ridiculous. Especially when they could be making more money doing something else.

Originally Posted by Grimsin

I beg you, if your response to all this is that they were doing whats right. Rethink the whole thing.

My response is that from what has been reported that there is no sign of anyone doing anything wrong (with the exception of the fellow dealing drugs).

Originally Posted by Grimsin

Was it right when they were storming a house of a suspected drug dealer in Los Angeles, a little boy heard noise outside went out with a flash light to see what was going on and was shot over 15 times by the police as he came out the front door?

No, but this ones understandable. It also has nothing to do with what's being discussed.

Originally Posted by Grimsin

Was it right when the sheriff in a small town in Montana had the local children as sex slaves and the whole town in fear.

Was it right when guards at LA County jail boiled a man to death in a pressure cooker because he smelled bad?

Was it right when a prison had a bring your child to work day and they lined them all up and tazzered them with 50k volts and thought it was funny?

When the inmates of another prison must pick the ****rouchs out of their food before eating it because it has been left to sit in a hallway for hours before serving purely because the officers did not feel like dealing with it?

Or the man who died of heart attack because the police didnt listen to him when he needed heart medication they locked him in a small room for many hours when he went into seizures they still did nothing despite the other inmates screaming for help. He died before anyone ever came in to retrieve him.

I witnessed my self or know personally the people involved in most of these incidents and this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Nope, none of it right. None of it relevant either.

Originally Posted by Grimsin

You want to talk about whats right? Doing whats right? Start showing a little more compassion and understanding for your fellow man. Ill bet Hightower was someones son, brother maybe even, Father possibly? Husband? What if he was your family? Would you not want some compassion shown in the mater? Maybe all he was doing was selling marijuana? maybe many of those people buying it were like me? or my mother? Or maybe some of you have sick family? hmmm? Now those people are without to. Whats right in any of this?

You make it sound like people are throwing rotten fruit at him in the street! All anyone has done is arrested a suspected drug dealer with an outstanding warrant. What, you want us to let all criminals free because they are someone's son/daughter?

Akryn · 01-07-10, 05:56 PM

No, but this ones understandable. It also has nothing to do with what's being discussed.

Agreed that it's OT, but it's 100% not "understandable" to be shot to death by the police for leaving your house.

Sythalin · 01-07-10, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Vyper

You make it sound like people are throwing rotten fruit at him in the street! All anyone has done is arrested a suspected drug dealer with an outstanding warrant. What, you want us to let all criminals free because they are someone's son/daughter?

Not at all. However, there are plenty of people out there with outstanding warrants, a lot for minor offenses (bench warrants, for example). Are they all gonna start probing online games to try and catch them too? How about serving papers for a divorce? How about the thought of bill collectors starting to send you in-game spam?

Once again, for the 3rd time, how far does it go? How far will it be "acceptable" to probe people in online games for info?

I think the main issue people are missing here is not that a criminal was caught. The main issue is how severe does the charge have to be for this type of investigation to be "tolerable"?

Vyper · 01-07-10, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Akryn

Agreed that it's OT, but it's 100% not "understandable" to be shot to death by the police for leaving your house.

No it is 100% understandable. Not right, but understandable. You try busting in after some dangerous ganster who may or may not have enough weaponry to start his own army, and see if your trigger finger isn't a little itchy. That doesn't mean it's right, or the officers involved shouldn't be punished, but when an officer in a situation like that sees someone come out with something that at first glance appears to be a gun, how that person could wind up getting shot is 100% understandable.

For that matter the OP did not provide any details surrounding this. For example, was he instructed to drop it and didn't? Was he instructed to lie down on the ground? Or was he shot on sight? At the point I don't even have enough information to say the officers involved should be punished.

Originally Posted by ChaosInc

Not at all. However, there are plenty of people out there with outstanding warrants, a lot for minor offenses (bench warrants, for example). Are they all gonna start probing online games to try and catch them too? How about serving papers for a divorce?

If they can make it work, why not? Of course they have to convince the judge that it's worth the subpoena, just as they do if they want your bank records. I'm not seeing a problem here, this is NO different from your bank records being subpoenaed, except the information is less critical. I'm a damn sight more protective of my banking information than I am about the fact that I am about how well geared my main is and my IP address.

Originally Posted by ChaosInc

How about the thought of bill collectors starting to send you in-game spam?

You go from a subpoena to bill collectors sending you in-game spam? That's one hell of a leap. But, again, assuming that Blizzard isn't just handing out your character information (which, remember, there was a subpoena involved here, Capital One can't issue one of those), I don't see how contacting you in game is any worse than calling you on the telephone.

Originally Posted by ChaosInc

Once again, for the 3rd time, how far does it go? How far will it be "acceptable" to probe people in online games for info?

Exactly as far as the judge involved in the subpoena deems it so. Same with your bank account information.

Originally Posted by ChaosInc

I think the main issue people are missing here is not that a criminal was caught. The main issue is how severe does the charge have to be for this type of investigation to be "tolerable"?

"tolerable"? It's tolerable for any investigation, I don't care if it's a warrant for a parking ticket. If the police can look up my address in the DMV records for it, I have no problem with WoW providing them my IP address when I'm not home. Worthwhile? Now there is the question.

Grimsin · 01-07-10, 09:58 PM

Vyper, both incidents in that news report mention it was over marijuana.
One says and other drugs or stuff, but the police always say that.

and let me guess you think the legal system works vyper? or we got what we voted for?

Grimsin · 01-07-10, 10:03 PM

oh and if its understandable for them to gun down a child out of fear... then considering they are nothing more then an armed gang its completely understandable that i should gun one of them down out of fear now isnt it?

oh wait i forgot that badge means they can do anything they want.

Slakah · 01-07-10, 10:43 PM

How many crack heads function enough to raid? I would say they are being ridiculous still

Being a drug dealer doesn't automatically make you a druggy. Also WoW ain't exactly a complicated game to play.

Grimsin · 01-08-10, 12:08 AM

complicated enough that i doubt if you were on hard drugs you would be able to play. More then likely would lack the attention span for it. Tweekers maybe get away with it for awhile but... then tweekers dont last long at anything...

This is true, being a dealer does not make you a druggy.

my only point in all of this is why trust what the police say about hightower and they have overstepped the line long before this incident.

MidgetMage55 · 01-08-10, 01:23 AM

That also implies that all police and related agencies are bad. The downside of this discussion is it has devolved in to generalization and absolutes. Which as we know will never go anywhere and just leads to static arguments.

Might as well turn to discussing politics. The result should be disturbingly similar.

nightcracker · 01-08-10, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Slakah

Being a drug dealer doesn't automatically make you a druggy. Also WoW ain't exactly a complicated game to play.

Depends, I play an affliction warlock, and it's pretty complicated to 1v3 in WSG for example(though often succesfull

). I think it's not complicated to play WoW, but to play it good, it is.

Vyper · 01-08-10, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Grimsin

Vyper, both incidents in that news report mention it was over marijuana.
One says and other drugs or stuff, but the police always say that.

None of the reports I've read say anything of the sort. Perhaps you can cite your source?

Originally Posted by Grimsin

and let me guess you think the legal system works vyper?

Not hardly, but neither do I think the police are a bunch of armed thugs running around doing whatever the hell the want, which seems to be your opinion.

Originally Posted by Grimsin

or we got what we voted for?

Well I sure know I didn't, but if you voted for either of the mainstream parties, sorry but you got exactly what you voted for.

Grimsin · 01-08-10, 10:28 AM

Most of them are armed thugs. And read the cut and pasted article about hightower back in this verry thread. It says it was over marijuana and that that same cop used facebook to bust someone else.

"I knew the guy's name but I had no idea what he looked like. So I plugged his name into Facebook and there he was -- along with incriminating messages on his wall and a picture of him in a motel with a stack of money and some marijuana," Roberson said.

well thats one mention at lest. Also its not rocket since. Hightower is only facing up to 10 years. most likely he had large amounts of marijuana. Meth and cocaine carry way heavier sentences. Especially if it was enough of anything to make them go to Canada. If he had enough cocaine or meth for them to want to go to Canada then he would be in jail for ever.

Vyper · 01-08-10, 10:48 AM

The article you quote says the fellow caught using Facebook was dealing marijuana. It says nothing about what hightower was dealing.

As for your claim about sentence lengths, I admit, I don't know what the typical drug sentence is, but when I tried to google it, this was the first thing I found:
http://www.addictionca.com/news-left.htm?aid=1800

Nearly four years ago, Lynn and her husband, Jeff, who live in Springdale, watched as their middle son, Daniel, stood before a judge and was sentenced to 10 years in prison for manufacturing and possessing methamphetamine with intent to deliver.

Taryble · 01-08-10, 11:07 AM

Guys, the one where the dude went to Canada and was found through WoW, the original news report from Kokomo, IN., where the officers who started it all work, they said it was "Schedule III" and "Schedule IV" drugs.

Link to the article: http://www.kokomoperspective.com/new...cc4c03286.html

Link to Wikipedia entry on what drugs are in each schedule: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act

If you notice, most of the so-called "Date Rape" drugs are in schedules III and IV, as are several opiates and prescription painkillers, as well as a cousin of LSD known as LSA.